San Rensho 

What part of "the police told me they had set up the sting because of resident's complaints" don't you understand? That is a statement of fact, certain specific words were used by a police officer. There is no manufactured opinion in the statement "we are stopping you because resident's complained.

You may not like the statement, it may not fit into what you wanted to happen on that day, but you look like a fool in arguing against specific facts.

ilmooz

That doesn't pertain to any of the six assumptions I pointed out. I believe you're so tangled up in your own bias you're no longer able to discern fact from fiction. You're clearly having difficulty employing logic as well.

mconlonx

So how many of the people on that ride called the police station to complain about speeding cars along that stretch of road? If you're so outraged about this waste of taxpayer money, have you contacted local news stations with the story? Filed a complaint with the police station of some kind or figured out where in the chain of command you should approach things?

DM4

Where is the controversy? The police received complaints regarding cyclists disregarding traffic signals. They responded to the scene at the time that the offenses were reported to take place. They observed the violations and took enforcement action.

The police did exactly what they are tasked to do. They did exactly what any police department should do. They received a complaint of illegal behavior. They investigated. They observed the illegal behavior and they took corrective action.

What is your issue, I mean, other than paranoia. You rode through the red signal, you were caught and you were issued a summons.

Again, I fail to see the problem.

Face it, you were wrong. Pay the ticket and move on.

San Rensho 

WHY DO YOU AND SO MANY OTHERS INSIST ON MAKING UP YOUR OWN FACTS WHEN IT SUITS YOUR PURPOSES? Where in my post did I say the citizen complaints were about illegal behavior? Read my post, the cop said that the department recieved complaints about cyclists, the COP NEVER SAID THE COMPLAINTS WERE OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR AND I NEVER WROTE THAT ANYWHERE.

What is your problem that you can't take the facts as given and not as you would want them?

Blue Order

So the cops sent three squad cars because they got a complaint that people were riding their bikes?

DM4

Yes, the officer said that the police department received complaints about cyclists. I will accept that is what the officer said. He may have failed to elaborate on the nature of the complaint. Someone simply complaining that there are cyclists is akin to someone complaining that there are clouds. Do you really expect everyone to believe that you cannot comprehend fact that the police department was there, with multiple cars and looking for violations, because they received complaints about cyclist not obeying traffic laws?

Skipper

I don't think it is accurate to call this a sting. Otherwise, I agree 100%.

DogBoy

I speed in my car...I've run the occasional stop sign on my bike...and if I get pulled over and ticketed for either, I'll own up to breaking the law and pay for it like a grown up. I will not complain that others were speeding, or that I was targeted because the police are out to get cyclists.

Now, if I am NOT breaking the law and get a ticket due to a sting...then I will complain.

DCCommuter

Keep in mind that ALL law enforcement is targeted. They couldn't possibly enforce every law, all the time. Nor do they restrict themselves to the most serious crimes -- otherwise they would put all there resources into murder until all of the murders ever have been solved. Rather, the police put the resources they have toward offenses they think people care about, and where they think they have a chance at being successful.

I actually have to admire the restraint that the police showed in this case. It appears that they made an effort to enforce the law that actually exists, in the most limited way possible. This forum is full of anecdotes of cops who attempt to enforce a law that exists only in their own imagination. If this had happened in DC, it's plausible that the cops would have charged the cyclists with disorderly conduct and assembling without a permit, arrested them, confiscated the bikes -- or worse, left them on the side of the road. Then the perps would have been placed with their ankles chained to their wrists, and left on a concrete floor to cool off for a day or so. The crackdown would have been timed for the Thursday before a three-day weekend, so that the arrestees would have to stay in jail until they could appear before a judge Tuesday morning. Then the charges would be dropped. Crap like that happens here with pretty good regularity, and the city has paid out millions of dollars in the past few years in wrongful arrest lawsuits.

If this had happened to you, I would feel that you had been wronged. As it is, I consider you lucky to get a cheap lesson.

-pops-

The OP says they will contest the ticket.

What issues do you plan to present, and how do you intend to plead? I'm not familiar with Florida traffic law, so do you plead not guilty or is there a mechanism where to request mitigation (essentially pleading guilty, but with circumstances).

JusticeZero

I also saw nothing I can recall to indicate to me that the complaints were NOT of illegal behavior. Only that the complaint referred to bicycles in some manner. In any case, the origin of the complaints is a complete and total non-issue. It does not matter WHY the police were there. That spot was likely just as good as anywhere to do their policely duties. They were there, you broke the law in front of them, you got caught.

San Rensho 

Easy. Not guilty. The state has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that I committed the infraction. To do so, the cop has to testify that he saw me run a red light, in the pitch black of night, in a group of 50-100 tightly packed riders, some of whom crossed an intersection on a yellow light, some on a red, while he was stopped at the side of the road.

He will have to perjure himself to testify that he picked me out of 100 riders and I am hoping that he will be honorable and simply tell the truth, that he thinks I was in the group but can't say for sure that I was. If he tells the truth, I am confident the judge will find a reasonable doubt and dismiss.

San Rensho 

Thats about right. There has been an ongoing fued for years between cyclists and drivers on the causeway. Its the typical mentality of bikes shouldn't use the roads. The drivers have enough clout to get the police to harass the cyclists. It comes in waves, for a while, there isn't much friction between cyclists and drivers, but in the last few weeks its been heating up, with the cops of course taking the drivers side, and since the cops have seen one bad cyclist, therefore they are all law breakers, right? Never come across that mentality have you?

Speedo

Or find Bike Forums where you've pretty much admitted to the offense. I suppose that self incrimination prevents them from asking you if you did it. Will you perjure yourself and say that you are innocent? Or carefully word your responses that you are not guilty?

Speedo

ilmooz

After freely admitting here you disobeyed the red light it appears you're the one who plans to commit perjury while under oath to tell the truth.

Speedo

No, he can plead not guilty without perjuring himself. That's not the same as saying he's innocent. It's basically saying, "prove it!"

Speedo

Allister

I don't know about anyone else, but irrespective of what my usual practice was, if I saw a cop sitting at the corner, I'd stop for the light.

It doesn't require 'slamming on the brakes' to stop at a light in a group any more than it does riding solo. Anyone within the group can make the call to stop even if some get to go through, and do it safely. If you can't you shouldn't be riding in a group that size.

I also reckon if I was a lawyer, I'd be scanning the interforums for references to the case, just for fun.

If you're looking for trouble, this story is an ideal lesson in how to find it.

I got a ticket for running a red light once. I took the apparently revolutionary tactic of just paying it and not whining about it on bike forums.

noisebeam

Exactly.

San Rensho 

Of course I will not perjure myself. The state has the burden of proof and I do not have to testify at all. All I have to do is raise a reasonable doubt. I will simply cross examine the police officer and then move to dismiss. If the judge grants my motion, I won, if not, I will rest without testifying, so no perjury.

Blue Order

It seems to me that when they sent those three squad cars, what they saw would be confirmation of any "all cyclists are lawbreakers" mentality you claim they might be harboring.

I still laugh at your assertion that they sent three squad cars simply because somebody complained that people were riding bikes. As another poster said, that would be like sending 3 squad cars because people complained that there were clouds.

Now, if you want to tell me that people repeatedly complained that 50-100 cyclists run red lights and violate everybody else's right of way twice a week, same time, same place, and the cops sent 3 squad cars in response to THAT complaint, I would believe that.

Blue Order

Without bothering to look up Florida law, I would be very surprised if that is the standard. That is the standard for criminal convictions. As far as I am aware, in most states, perhaps every state, the standard for traffic convictions is much lower-- a "preponderance of the evidence," not "beyond a reasonable doubt."

randya

But we'll probably never know what the actual nature of the complaint was, or even if there was a complaint at all, since the police normally don't divulge that information, they just allude to it.

In Portland, one complaint about cyclists running stop signs in Ladd's Addition can result in the equivalent of three squad cars (or more) showing up in response.

fordfasterr

The only flaw I see in your argument is the chance that the entire event was somehow filmed...

If the police went to the trouble of videotaping the alleged infraction, they would have to have a camera that works at night, and they would have to identify you in the crowd.

San Rensho 

Well then be very surprised because thats what the law is. But you'd better look it up yourself since you wouldn't believe me if I said the sun rose today.