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The helmet thread

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I've never worn a bike helmet
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I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
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The helmet thread

Old 01-25-13, 01:07 PM
  #4576  
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this makes me think about getting a new one..
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Old 01-28-13, 08:01 AM
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Lets try again for a reasonable logical answer from the anti helmet people.

I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
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Old 01-28-13, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Lets try again for a reasonable logical answer from the anti helmet people.

I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
Your question actually has been addressed, and multiple times.

Before we begin, however, I want you to answer a question of mine. Since you agree that the chances of having a crash where a helmet will protect you is remote, and that you wear a helmet anyway to protect you against that rare occurence, why is it that you don't wear a helmet in other circumstances where the chance of head injury is greater, as is the ability for a helmet to protect you? I'm thinking particularly of driving an automobile, but situations such as climbing a ladder when making home repairs and taking a shower also come to mind.
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Old 01-28-13, 10:00 AM
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Answering a question with a question is a classic avoidance technique.

But to address your intellectually lazy inquiry, (and this has been addressed multiple times, as well) we all choose what level of risk we are willing to put ourselves in. Just because we don't wear safety goggles every time we fire up a power-drill, doesn't mean we quit wearing our seat belts.
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Old 01-28-13, 10:07 AM
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I have no issue with anyone who decides they don't want to wear a helmet. If you don't want to wear a helmet, then don't. Why do you need to justify it here?

Several of the bare-head brigade have stated that their only problem is with mandatory helmet laws and that they should not be forced to wear a helmet. If this is the case, then whether a helmet can be helpful or not is immaterial. So, making the "bicycle helmets are worthless*" argument is pointless. Regardless of their effectiveness, you should not be forced to wear it.

Is there anyone on the pro-helmet side, in this thread who have argued that we should have mandatory helmet laws? If not, then who are the bare-headers arguing with and why are they arguing so vehemently?

*Siting studies about emergency room injuries with or without helmets is pretty ridiculous. Unlike automobile accidents which are almost always reported, if someone has a bicycle accident and the helmet protects their head, they will not, in all likelihood be going to an emergency room or reporting the accident to anyone. Thus, nearly all the reports you'll be able to find will be incidents of helmet failure, misuse or non-use. Meaning the real-world stats will always be skewed.
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Old 01-28-13, 10:09 AM
  #4581  
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Originally Posted by skye
Your question actually has been addressed, and multiple times.

Before we begin, however, I want you to answer a question of mine. Since you agree that the chances of having a crash where a helmet will protect you is remote, and that you wear a helmet anyway to protect you against that rare occurence, why is it that you don't wear a helmet in other circumstances where the chance of head injury is greater, as is the ability for a helmet to protect you? I'm thinking particularly of driving an automobile, but situations such as climbing a ladder when making home repairs and taking a shower also come to mind.
Please link to helmets which have been certified for ladder climbing and showering.
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Old 01-28-13, 12:39 PM
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skye

This is a bike forum, and talking about safety equiptment in other forms of transportation is moot.

Second I have biked for at least 68 years, and until 2 years ago I had never been hit by a car. Then I was, and my helmet saved me from injury. Since there is really no good reason not to, why not wear a helmet.
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Old 01-28-13, 12:44 PM
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mmach

While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.

How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
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Old 01-28-13, 02:35 PM
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I don't think there ever was anybody on here in this thread that said there should be a MHL... I think many pro-helmet wearing people used to believe (may still believe) that a helmet was/is great, and was the main line of defence in a crash. (I know I did)... now after being on this thread for a while I think it's the last line of defence, and while I learned here that a helmet maybe nowhere near as good as it should/could be I still think it's better than nothing... So from that perspective this thread is helping to spread the news that a helmet should not be the main thing to rely on and I agree, riding defensively, riding within your skill, riding on routes which are more bike friendly, and so on, can be more beneficial than a helmet... BUT, when the head does actually bounce off the pavement, it is still better to wear a helmet than not, thus wearing one is a good thing... JMO
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Old 01-31-13, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
mmach

While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.

How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
Thank you for calling me really bull headed and anti social.
Because it comes for you, I take that as a compliment.
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Old 01-31-13, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Lets try again for a reasonable logical answer from the anti helmet people.

I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet?
1. They're hot.
2. They cost money.
3. They need to be resized to wear some hats underneath them and they're tough to fit some hoods over.
4. They are a pain in the behind to tote around if you have a lot of stops to make, say multi-store shopping trips, multiple classes to attend during a day, etc.
5. Styrofoam is bad for the environment.

Just some ideas from a part time helmeteer. I got a new helmet a few months ago, but didn't wear it today. Rode approx 20 miles in 10 different trips.
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Old 01-31-13, 12:41 AM
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Oh, how could I forget the hair. OMG the hair!!!!
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Old 01-31-13, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
4. They are a pain in the behind to tote around if you have a lot of stops to make, say multi-store shopping trips, multiple classes to attend during a day, etc.
Why would you tote it around? You should wear it around -- walking is proven to be very dangerous, and although not certified as a walking helmet, a bicycle helmet may help in the case of light to moderate head injury sustained during a fall, the leading cause of head injury.
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Old 01-31-13, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
Oh, how could I forget the hair. OMG the hair!!!!
I knew it, I just knew that would be one of the the "real" reasons... For people with hair anyways, for people without hair I guess those stripes can be quite annoying I hear...

Last edited by 350htrr; 01-31-13 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 01-31-13, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
I don't think there ever was anybody on here in this thread that said there should be a MHL... I think many pro-helmet wearing people used to believe (may still believe) that a helmet was/is great, and was the main line of defence in a crash. (I know I did)... now after being on this thread for a while I think it's the last line of defence, and while I learned here that a helmet maybe nowhere near as good as it should/could be I still think it's better than nothing... So from that perspective this thread is helping to spread the news that a helmet should not be the main thing to rely on and I agree, riding defensively, riding within your skill, riding on routes which are more bike friendly, and so on, can be more beneficial than a helmet... BUT, when the head does actually bounce off the pavement, it is still better to wear a helmet than not, thus wearing one is a good thing... JMO
That's a reasonable explanation. for me, it's not a good thing, or a necessary thing. what I try to tell people is, wear a helmet if you want, but it's really not necessary for a commuting situation, and it won't protect you from very much. be aware of what the helmet can and can't protect you from, and base your safety not on the helmet's "powers" but your own powers of observation, riding skills, and judgement. those things are much more important (by a factor of a zillion) to your safety than a helmet.
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Old 01-31-13, 12:11 PM
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I wear a hellmunt while cycling my bicycle because it is one more step toward my goal of wearing a full robotic exoskeleton. Also because my wife makes me.
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Old 01-31-13, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
I knew it, I just knew that would be one of the the "real" reasons... For people with hair anyways, for people without hair I guess those stripes can be quite annoying I hear...
Is it wrong of me to hope that the really aggressive helmeteers get skin cancer on their head stripes?
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Old 01-31-13, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Six jours
Is it wrong of me to hope that the really aggressive helmeteers get skin cancer on their head stripes?
I have a full set of hair, I don't get head stripes... Helmet hair I do get, but a shower fixes that...
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Old 01-31-13, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rando
That's a reasonable explanation. for me, it's not a good thing, or a necessary thing. what I try to tell people is, wear a helmet if you want, but it's really not necessary for a commuting situation, and it won't protect you from very much. be aware of what the helmet can and can't protect you from, and base your safety not on the helmet's "powers" but your own powers of observation, riding skills, and judgement. those things are much more important (by a factor of a zillion) to your safety than a helmet.
WOW, a zillion, while that number "may" actually be right, when talking about the chances of getting into a crash (I have no idea what the REAL number is), where head injury actually happens... But, that's NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about the chance of death when the old head actually does bounce off the pavement or other hard object. The number seems to be more like 4.5 X to 6.1 X that helmet-less head people end up dead as compared to helmeted head people... https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm

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Old 02-01-13, 09:17 AM
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I am personally acquainted with people who were either saved from serious injury by wearing a helmet or suffered traumatic brain injury when not wearing a helmet.

One is a coworker who was hit from behind by a speeding motorist one night on the street adjoining our workplace. He was fully lit up, and traffic was light. The impact totaled his bike and batted him off the road like a whiffle ball. Somewhere in there, his head hit something, because his helmet was good and busted. He walked away. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he might not have fared as well if the impact that broke his helmet had been applied directly to his head. I realize that it is difficult to infer this with scientific confidence without running controlled experiments wherein a representative sample of cyclists is divided randomly into helmet and non-helmet groups, both to be struck from behind by the same speeding idiot, and their injuries measured quantitatively and the differences subjected to tests of statistical significance. Such a study seems impractical on a number of levels, so I'll just take my colleague's experience under advisement in the old fashioned, non-Cartesian way.

Another friend was mountain biking without a helmet on local trails in suburban Pennsylvania. He doesn't remember what happened, but neighbors found him wandering the streets near the trailhead in a confused state and bleeding from the scalp. He spent the following weeks in a coma and underwent several surgeries to relieve intracranial pressure. He recovered but was later diagnosed with early onset dementia.

I realize that this narrative is well comprised by the dreaded term "anecdotal evidence," which, as all good empiricists know, "doesn't prove anything." It firmly belongs in that genre known pejoratively as "horror stories." Still, I have found them somewhat compelling on a personal level.
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Old 02-01-13, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GrouchoWretch
I am personally acquainted with people who were either saved from serious injury by wearing a helmet or suffered traumatic brain injury when not wearing a helmet.
...
The direction of this thread, of late would indicate that your acquaintances both need to work on their cycling skills. Clearly if they knew how to control a bicycle and fall properly, (or bounce off a car properly) they wouldn't need a helmet.
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Old 02-01-13, 07:27 PM
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Actually, the thread should have helped you understand that the "A helmet saved my (or my my friend's) life!!!" stories are essentially meaningless because there was no control: nobody is willing to perform the experiment again without the helmet. (The sorry part is that Groucho claims to understand that but is going to go with it anyway.)

But hey, if you find that line of debate unpersuasive, then let me tell you that I know a guy who fell with no helmet and was fine, and I know a guy who crashed with a helmet and died. So I guess that proves that helmets kill cyclists. Right?
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Old 02-01-13, 11:03 PM
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Maybe helmunts do kill bicyclers. We can't even guess without a controlled experiment.
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Old 02-02-13, 07:56 AM
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Groucho has a good point. Lets have specific reports on how a helmet has killed someone. Names places and hospital reports.
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Old 02-02-13, 08:09 AM
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Helmets didn't exist when I started riding back when I had rubber bones.

But when I returned to riding 30 years later (after moving out to the burbs from living in big cities with rapid transit), I got one, for sure.
The roads here, it's the least one can do to provide a little protection against the unexpected.
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