Right back atcha big guy.

Keep focusing your concerns and diverting attention away from the largest groups of victims. That helps a lot.;)

http://www.projectlearnet.org/about_the_brain.html

Falls continue to be the leading cause of TBI (35.2%)

Among all age groups, motor vehicle crashes and traffic-related incidents were the second leading cause of TBI (17.3%) and resulted in the largest percentage of TBI-related deaths (31.8%)

Assaults produced 10% of TBIs in the general population

Don't even bother pontificating statistics to me, open your eyes and see what happened today in the real world to a real person.

If you want to wear a helmet while riding, good for you, but if you take it off when you get off your bike, you're taking a risk.

And don't be too upset at the suggestion to keep on wearing that hat - it's just a bit of advice that may save your ass someday

Three thousand people died in car accidents today. All real people in the real world. Frankly, I'm shocked at how little you care about them.

Thankfully I didn't know any of them.

I am done for now with this thread, i'll probably have to come back later with another reminder that cyclists aren't made safer by closetbiker and sixjours mocking and statistics. People still die from and suffer unnecessary head injuries on a bicycle because they didn't have a helmet on...

Please wear your helmet while riding, it is nice to debate with amateurs on the internet about the it, but in the real world i hope you listen to your loved ones and the educated experts.

six

Your facts about car deaths are about as factual as most of the anti helmet posts. According to you there would be 1,095,000 auto deaths a year. The real number is near 40,000.

Yeah, and what the experts have to say is riding a bike lengthens a life; it doesn't risk it.

http://goeshealth.com/world-health/p...xpectancy.html

http://healthcaremag.blogspot.com/20...f-cycling.html

http://planetsave.com/2010/11/10/cyclists-live-longer/

To infer otherwise is to work against cyclings inherent benefits.

Bicycles save more lives than helmets ever can.

I had to do some clean up of the name-calling. Even though this is A&S, posts still need to follow the forum guidelines. Time to take a breath and cool off for a bit.

CbadRider
Forum Moderator

Your ability to be wrong on any topic of your choosing continues to amaze.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

I feel exactly the same way, but I suspect for a different reason.

(btw, this really isn't the thread for that anyway. There's already a memorial thread. Using people's deaths as an attempt to forward your agenda is pretty sick, especially since it's baseless and proves nothing except for the fact that people die on bicycles. If someone dies while wearing khakis, it doesn't mean jeans would have saved his life.)

Just like Electrik can't support a claim that a helmet would have saved this guy in this particular situation, the helmet haterz can't support a claim that a helmet wouldn't have helped.

Everyone, however, is free to generalize...

You know this guy? I'm sorry to hear that an acquaintance/friend of yours was injured like that.

Guy in the article died?

So sorry to hear it...

Don't bother. Really. You have nothing to offer beyond your own fervent ignoring of the cumulative anecdotes (we call them statistics) which challenge your simplistic idea that a lightweight piece of EPS can make any difference to death and serious injury. You continue to ignore the majority of helmeted cyclists who have died or suffered serious brain trauma (dare I suggest that you may be one of them yourself? -- brain-damaged, not dead, that is) and avoid the obvious conclusion that cycling deaths and injuries are not greater than those suffered while walking or driving.

People still die and suffer unnecessary head injuries on a bicycle and on the sidewalk and in the car whether or not they have a helmet on .... it makes eff all difference whether you wear one. Also I haven't seen SixJours or ClosetBiker mocking anyone. I on the other hand feel perfectly free to mock your opinions as supremely ignorant. I was trying to explain cognitive dissonance to one of my students today and I thought of your posts ... thanks.


Please wear your helmet or don't as you choose. If you care to have an informed opinion on the topic, then consult the experts at http://cyclehelmets.org and after viewing their calm, rational appraisal of the topic marvel at the widespread anti-scientific, anti-statistical commentary about Magic Hats on any cycling forum.

Along with global-warming, this topic surely illustrates the failure of technical, cartesian education in the west.

As with all your posts you lack even a basic accuracy. Circa 40,000 people die a year in the USA. The population of the USA is a small proportion of the total planet.

The W.H.O. puts the figure of road deaths for the planet at circa 1.3 million per annum. Not far from what Six Jours suggested to you.

Further, as your opinions are obviously in line with the anti-freedom U.N. I suggest you consult pg.8 of the link above for a vision of the future of children's walking.

Actually, I scored that as simply being guilty of being US centric, 'cause in this particular instance I was guilty of the same thing.

Speedo

Sports-related head injury by activity:

Cycling: 64,993
Football: 36,412
Baseball and Softball: 25,079
Basketball: 24,701
Powered Recreational Vehicles (ATVs, Dune Buggies, Go-Carts, Mini bikes, Off-road): 24,090
Skateboards/Scooters (Powered): 18,542
Soccer: 17,108
Skateboards/Scooters: 16,477
Winter Sports (Skiing, Sledding, Snowboarding, Snowmobiling): 16,120
Water Sports (Diving, Scuba Diving, Surfing, Swimming, Water Polo, Water Skiing): 12,096
Horseback Riding: 11,759
Health Club (Exercise, Weightlifting): 11,550
Golf: 8,417
Trampolines: 7,075
Hockey: 5,483
Gymnastics/Dance/Cheerleading: 5,459
Ice Skating: 3,703
Fishing: 3,560
Rugby/Lacrosse: 3,281
Wrestling: 2,640

The top 10 head injury categories among children ages 14 and younger:
Cycling: 32,899
Football: 17,441
Baseball and Softball: 13,508
Skateboards/Scooters (Powered): 11,848
Basketball: 10,844
Skateboards/Scooters: 10,256
Winter Sports: 7,546
Powered Recreational Vehicles: 7,460
Water Sports: 6,498
Trampolines: 6,360

Source: brainandspinalcord.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bicyclist deaths by helmet use, 1998-2008 (US)
Source: Insurance Institute for Highway Safety



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Cyclist Fatality Data from New York City, 1996-2005:

Injury Type
Known injury type: 177 86%
Unknown injury type: 30 14%

Of cyclists with known injury type:
Head only: 86 49%
Head & all others: 45 25%
All others: 46 26%

Helmet Use
Helmet use known 122 59%
Helmet use not known 85 41%

Of those with helmet use known:
Wearing Helmet: 4 3%
Not Wearing Helmet: 118 97%

Source: New York City Department of Health

-------------------------------------------------------------------

A new study following the introduction of mandatory helmet laws in Australia found a significant reduction in injury rates. ("Last year, a Sydney University study found the laws had failed and should be repealed because compulsory helmet wearing could be a disincentive to cycling. The academic paper was later retracted due to serious data and arithmetic errors.")

Source: Walker, et al., Accident Analysis & Prevention,, 20 June 2011

None of that means squat without some idea of what the exposure rates are.

One of the claims made by BC helmet law proponents was that cycling was dangerous, much more dangerous than riding a motor cycle.

They based this claim on a single study that did not consider the exposure rates of bicycling and motorcycling.

The McDermott and Klug 1982 study, "Difference in head injuries of pedal cyclist and motorcyclist casualties*in Victoria" reported*73 skull fractures for pedal cyclists compared with 31 for motorcyclists.

While a conclusion that pedal cyclists did have more skull fractures than motorcyclists is correct, it is extremely misleading as McDermott and King did not consider the very relevant information of exposure rates for pedal cyclists and motor cyclists were widely different during the study.

When exposure time is considered, the injuries reported are much more in line with other studies that show motor cycling as being the far more dangerous activity. The figures show with relating time of travel to skull fractures, motorcyclists incur nearly three times that of bicyclists, a factor of 278% and have a fatality rate 16.3 higher than bicyclists and the overall injury rate for motorcyclists was 16.1 times higher.

Those figures you've supplied also don't take into account the severity of the injuries. I don't think too many will dispute a helmet can reduce minor injuries and the large majority of injuries suffered by cyclists are minor.

As for the death rates for cyclists without helmets, you should consider the death rates in areas that have mandated helmet use. Entire populations of Ausrailia and New Zealand switched over to helmet use to reduce deaths, yet cyclists continue to experience the same death rate despite the use of helmets

It turns out that the "skydiving without parachute" fatality rate is extremely low. Some people might claim that almost no people skydive without parachutes, but that's just obfuscation.

It's also worth noting that in the few fatalities linked with this very safe sport, all of them were wearing helmets at the time. So the obvious conclusion is that skydiving without a parachute is a very safe activity, at least when compared with the things Corvuscorvax lists, but that wearing a helmet makes it fatal in every instance.

Not that I'd try to play games with statistics, of course!

Wait. I don't get it. Regardless of exposure, it seems like NYCDoH and Insurance Institute for Highway Safety stats above indicate that the majority of deaths happend with riders riding without a helmet? Did the helmet help? Did non-use contribute to deaths? I'm certainly not going claim such, but the stats are pretty damning. Unless, in general, those riding without helmets are just less safe riders? Did the pro-helmet Illuminati get to those who compile such stats...?

Help me out, because I'm having a hard time figuring any scenario where those stats don't mean what the pro-helmeteers want it to...

If the majority of injuries sustained by cyclists are minor, and helmets are not disputed to help with minor injuries, why wouldn't I wear a helmet to prevent minor injuries? Noting that minor could include injury like scalp laceration to the point that you may need stitches or staples to close up a wound and the expense of going to hospital for such, aren't helmets cheap insurance?

When considering death rates, the rates from NYC actually may be more pertinent for some riders: like those in places without mandatory helmet laws and outside of Australia.

mcon

Ah but you dont understand. The anti helmet crowd dont like hard facts that disprove their point. They are mainly trolls that come here to argue with anyone that doesnt think like they do.

They keep blathering about wearing a helmet when walking skating or gardening. That is totally irevelant to this forum. This is a cycling forum, and comments should be restricted to helmets and cycling.

Not irrelevant to the thread. I find it rather interesting which activities people choose to wear or not wear a helmet for.

Most cycling isn't really that dangerous when conducted by a skilled individual. I won't race or ride on ice without a helmet but I'll ride down the road at 12 mph sans helmet. Some folks wouldn't ride down the road at 12 mph without a helmet. And that's all good, IMO. Everyone's chosen the level of protection they feel they need.

Now, when I ride about a mile south of here I enter the city limits of a city that has a law mandating helmet use for cyclists OF ALL AGES. If I were to skateboard into that city without a helmet I would not be breaking a law. Now, although I've been skateboarding for 35 years and cycling for 37 years I feel that skating through town has a slightly higher chance of head impact upon crashing so the law seems backwards to me. Now I'm not saying there should be a law for helmets on skaters, I'm saying there should be no law for helmets on cyclists.

People that tell strangers what they think about their protection levels are just plain busy bodies and should mind their own business.

So are you. What's your point, again?

I came across a rather interesting quote from a report carried out by the Transport Research Laboratory for the UK's Department for Transport entitled,

"Cycling, Safety and Sharing the Road: Qualitative Research with Cyclists and Other Road Users"

Way down on page 67, within the section on helmets, was the opinion of the researchers that said,

A little further down the report, in the helmet section dealing with legislation, the researchers wrote,

This is one of the keystones in my reasonings for removing my helmet; after much research, discussion, and thought, I feel I understand what a helmets limitations are.

(Another keystone is my personal risk assessment)

As a recumbent rider you probably shouldn't push that point too hard.