JoeyBike

^^Thats me. Where I live and ride is a far cry from Disneyland. It's a survival test that many have failed.

I-Like-To-Bike

If ever I came across traffic or road conditions that instilled such fear and anxiety I would either move or give up cycling.

Fortunately, I have never experienced the warzone/twilight zone cycling conditions that you describe, while living, working and riding in various places in the U.S. and Europe, both rural and urban.

Fortunately for me, the thought (or even the sight) of a cell phone in a driver's hand does not cause me to break out in hives nor have delusions of murderous motorists terrorizing the highways.

genec

I don't think anyone here has ever expressed quite those feelings... is this something you have nightmares about?

I-Like-To-Bike

Perhaps you should re-read some of the posts on this and every other A&S thread that contains the rants of posters apparently terrified by motorists of all stripes, but especially those who might use a cell phone anywhere in their vicinity.

genec

Perhaps it is just what people observe... you have a close call, you look at the driver and you see the cell phone in hand... what other conclusion might you derive from that observation?

I know for me, that is exactly what happens... if I am driving or cycling or walking and I see a driver pull a really dumb stunt... I look at the driver... I'll admit I first consider that perhaps it may be a woman or teen driver or someone from outside the country, or perhaps they might be very aged... but no, most of the bone head moves I see tend to come from what appear to be median aged drivers clutching cell phones... They tend to be white, driving nice, fairly newer cars, and could be either male or female... but the one common factor is that they are clutching a cell phone in hand... or peering down at something I cannot see or (often) talking and gesturing as if they are having a conversation with some invisible person. The gesturing thing is a dead giveaway... and almost humorous to watch... if it were not for the fact that my attention was grabbed by some real bone head driving move they just made.

It's that simple. I see bad driving... I then often observe a connection to a cell phone.

Do I also see bad driving unrelated to cell phone use... yes, but not nearly as often as I see it connected to cell phone use.

But as I have said... there can easily be other distractions causing drivers to act in an errant manner... but only something with a screen demands that drivers look away from the road. Indeed drivers can be distracted by other things... the most distracted motorist I ever saw was a guy in a small truck that nearly ran into me while he made a turn out of a strip mall... cigarette in one hand, juggling a cup of coffee and a cell phone cradled on his shoulder... I wasn't sure if he was even holding the wheel... he just hit the gas to leave the driveway of this strip mall and I saw him pop out right in front of me, and I slammed on my brakes, just as he became aware of what he almost did... and probably spilled the coffee.

JoeyBike

Exactly how I am now handling it. Sold off all of the "toy" bikes I used for recreational riding. Now I just own two utility vehicles for going to work and other necessities due to not owning a car and not having the kind of time it takes to deal with public transportation. And now I go STRAIGHT to work instead of adding 15 to 50 miles of riding before or after my workday. It's called limiting my exposure. I can't think of a better way to not get steamrolled by a car as to simply NOT BE THERE.

I-Like-To-Bike

Seems like an appropriate response to your personal concerns. Quite a negative bicycling advocacy statement though.

JoeyBike

I think this forum should be labeled "Advocacy vs. Safety" anyway.

genec

More like a negative statement toward sharing the road with idiots...

genec

Hey keep the off-road machines... you can still hit the trails and get in a good ride (if there are trails near you).

I-Like-To-Bike

Given your opinion of motorists as idiots, and that motorists are not likely to be getting brain transplants for the foreseeable future, does this brand of bicycling advocacy/bicycling safety call for elimination of bicyclists or motorists from use of public streets and roads?

Which do you think is a more likely scenario resulting from such "advocacy" efforts?

genec

Sorry... didn't mean to imply that all drivers are idiots... just meant to focus on the drivers that are doing anything but driving.

There are a fair number of folks that do drive in a decent enough manner... but the reality is, all it takes is one selfish idiot to ruin the day for someone else.... and the driver noted in the OP is an example of selfish idiot.

JoeyBike

I live in a swamp. No...seriously. It's about 3 hours one way to the nearest decent trails - by car. Everything else is flat and wet.

genec

Yeah, I kinka wondered. Never been to NO myself. Hey, how about a bike/boat thing?

CenturionIM

This is so sad but I fully agree with you. Biking on the road in the US is a harrowing experience that hardly allows room for joy or enjoyment. Bike path is still okay, though.

JoeyBike

I love the bike path on a rainy day when only one or two hardcore path users are out and about.

kickstart

Score one for ILTB.

I've ridden all over the US, and Germany, and have only experienced that on a few rate occasions, in a few very localized spots.

genec

No doubt... all rides are "local." But now consider that someone may just live and commute in one of "those" locations... for them, every day might involve "those experiences."

I honestly suspect that it really is never an everyday thing... even living in the 8th largest city in the US and bike commuting daily on fast wide arterial roads, I never encountered bad things on a daily basis. What I did encounter tended to surprise me though... it was rarely the same situation... as if there was always an escalation to "the game." As soon as I seemed to figure out one potentially bad thing... something else would arise.

One thing that did always seem to come up however was that motorists often failed to accept that a bike and rider has similar rights to the road as a car and driver. Again, this wasn't any sort of daily occurrence... but it was a repeated thing. That concept is just not being taught to motorists.

kickstart

Had they quantified their statement to their particular location or roads it would have seemed reasonable, but they only quantified it as the "US" which implies it in its entirety, and that's far from accurate.

CenturionIM

What's ILTB?

Most drivers are polite, and I do not encounter bad experiences daily. But I have been cut off, buzzed and otherwise aggravated enough times in my town and the surrounding areas. I don't even count these behaviors against the drivers anymore. I just assumed they will do it and I think it has made my ride safer.

On the other hand constantly watching out for danger takes all the fun out of riding. But what can I do, cars are the king of the road and my life is in their hands in some ways. I just do my best to get out of the way. I guess everyone's tolerance of danger is different, so YMMV.

Edit: about the whole US thing, I do not think drivers in my town are particularly rude/aggressive people. In fact I believe them to be better than average as a whole and more familiar with bikers than most. I don't think it is a far cry to assume their behavior pattern on the road extends to the entire nation.

kickstart

I-like-to-bike, aka ILTB, is a prolific poster who is fond of pointing out hyperbolic statements such as describing cycling in the US as "harrowing".

I-Like-To-Bike

And this thread is so full of chum bait for evermore hyperbolic statements about both Taking the Lane AND cellphone ranting that I assume it was/is meant as a big fat troll right from the beginning; and a successful one at that.

genec

Quite true... there are areas where cycling is really appreciated in the US. There are areas that are car free. These however tend to be too darn few and far between.

But all in all, the general US driver is vastly undertrained when it comes to dealing with other road users... no doubt this comes from a motorist entitlement mentality. "I own the road... I pay taxes..."

genec

That is the heart of the problem... cycling evokes a care free bon vivant sort of lifestyle... ever notice how chamber of commerce type ads for towns tend to show sailing and cycling as the desired leisure pastimes... being "on guard" kind of takes the fun out of that.

kickstart

I know its contrary to popular opinion, but having lived in Europe for nearly 5 years, I can say from personal experience we don't have a monopoly on bad and aggressive drivers.