pgoat

Thank you so much for all this info - I was thinking whether salvaging the broken dropout or using a replacement that I would ask the welder to somehow fill those screw slots in completely on both sides (assuming they thought was wise), to strengthen it more & prevent future cracks. In case it's not obvious by now, I know nothing about welding! But I will definitely communicate that to him.

BTW, I should be using Rafael at Chelsea Bike on W26th in NYC in case anyone is familiar. My LBS of choice in Queens actually referred me to him also.

CliffordK

I'm more of an amateur welder. I haven't done a dropout repair, but here is the way I would do it.

Grind a V-Grove from the outside of the dropout down to the adjuster threads. Do not do any grinding on the inside portion of the dropout. Or, you could work from the inside out, whichever seems best. A little less room to work, but it should be fine, and might make it a bit less visible of a repair.

Looking end-on.



Take an axle or 10mm threaded bar stock and bolt it to the dropout with a couple of washers at 130mm width. This should help hold everything together and keep the spacing and angles right. Double and triple check it is right, then tack and weld primarily from one side. If inadequate penetration, re-grind from the other side, and weld.

Your welder should be able to do his own prep-work, unless you have a special arrangement where you prepare the frame in advance.

exmechanic89

Yesh I know what you mean. I have a backup for my main bike, but I really prefer riding my main bike, lol. Still it's good to have it nonetheless. Better than not being able to ride.

pgoat

My plan is two commuters, and I have the two road bikes already for weekends...that's the two types of riding I do these days...no sense in missing rides just cause a bike goes down, which they do from time to time.


First things first; gotta figure out what to do with this Trek...

exmechanic89

I'd start by getting some quotes if there's a frame builder near you. That should pretty much tell you how to proceed from there. I hope you have some luck.

I love old Treks btw. My main ride is my old 950 mtb. I have it set up with 1.25 slicks at the moment and it is such a pleasure to ride. Trek's lugged stuff was definitely my favorite of all their offerings..

pgoat

It looks like the main guy was saying $125 minimum to TIG weld the broken parts together - but that's without them seeing what they have to work with; the twisted piece is worrying me.

Could go around $200 with an old donor Trek dropout to replace the broken one, or $250-300 if they need to go from scratch with two new matched dropouts.

I wasn't even interested in spending $100 at first, but after mulling it over, I am leaning towards fixing this if it's doable.

cale

While you were correcting me, did you imagine how the derailleur "fell off"? Hmmm. Maybe there's history to the bike the OP isn't aware of.

cale

I'm sorry, I know it is PC to agree with the whichever way the wind is blowing, so to speak, but I think repairing the frame is throwing good money after bad. It's easy to say, "Go for it" especially when it's someone else's money.

vintage cellar

Part of the steep costs are from your location in NYC, and partly because a good job keeping things straight might involve
a lot of fiddling and fudging by the welder. It isn't as straightforward a job as it might seem.

CliffordK

True.

I've got a tig welder in the garage. And so if it was my bike, I might already have it welded up and back on the road... or perhaps still pondering the next step.

Maybe I'll eventually get to the point where I will take on local outside work, but not quite there yet.

But, there are a lot of 20 to 40 year old road bikes that aren't busted up, often for good prices. A welded dropout would knock most of the resell value off of the bike, although it would still be functional as a commuter.

cale

Oh, steel has the best qualities when it comes to repair, so I wouldn't debate the point. And I don't generally dwell on resale value. A fully depreciated bike, such as this Trek frame, is kept for it's value to the owner not someone else.

I haven't taken a shot at welding yet but my area is full of small welding shops that serve the fishing fleet and they are typically happy to take on off-the-street jobs on the side. I had good luck finding someone to braze in a new seat tube when rust forced a replacement. I believe I paid in the neighborhood of $40.

When I read some of the figures getting tossed around, $125/$200 to repair an old frame, I'm just staggered. This must be a very special bike!

FBinNY 

I , for one, don't consider my role here to advise the wisdom of saving or not saving an older bike. People assign value for all sorts of reasons from sentimental to just being a good ride. IMO, that's strictly their call.

My role is to offer advice on the technical considerations, whether it can be done and how, how long such a repair might last, etc. Then armed with some facts and estimates of pricing, people make their own decisions.

To me, it's fairly simple----- their bike, their money, their decision. Whatever they decide is fine with me with no justification needed.

cale

Well, I see the situation where it IS a question of economy, "...I am not sentimentally attached to this bike" was written in the original post. Maybe the OP prefers cool detachment. IDK

FBinNY 

I assume the OP knows what a dollar is. It's not like he's going into it blind with no knowledge of what it'll cost. As I said, it's his bike and his money. What part of that bothers you so much?

cale

Excuse me? You're the one that engaged me.

FBinNY 

You're excused.

pgoat

PC has nothing to do with it; my initial thought was 'don't throw good money after bad'...but in reality when I started crunching the numbers of buying a frame, even after doing much of the parts transfer myself, the cost of getting another bike up and running was closer to $500. Suddenly paying $250ish or maybe less and getting it all done in a day or two seemed more attractive. Especially since every day without a commuting bike means I'm spending money on mass transit to go to work - currently that's $5.50 per day here, more if I need to make stops in addition to to/from work. That adds up quickly...not to mention the stress of being stuffed in a human sardine can, vs. riding.

Also - Remember that the primary role of this bike will be to roll through traffic at +/- 10 mph, and then get abused by chains and bike racks and extreme weather all day. While I prefer things like drop bars and would rather not buy another mtb for commuting (been there done that) this is still utilitarian "beater" transportation...so making the 'correct' choice for me has everything to do with economy, nothing at all with politics. I've never busted a frame like this before so I wasn't quite sure what my options were - hence me coming here for advice.

Exactly - like I said, this is a new experience for me; and I know zilch about welding techniques, the longevity of such repairs, and their associated costs. I really appreciate all the options and suggestions posted here, because they are helping me make an informed decision, that is best for me - that's what's great about this site in particular and the bike community in general.

pgoat

I'll add that I'm considering every option here, including the claw hanger suggestions. In the end, I imagine it will involve me schelpping my 25 pound dead beast to the guy's shop (i.e., dragging it onto a human sardine can) and letting him see it and tell me what the prognosis and associated costs will be.

This won't be a decision colored at all by sentimentality, for me; If saving this old bike is the best thing - meaning most prudent financially and simplest easiest fix for commuting, then so be it...if not, I can go another way and get a different frame, etc. Nor am I swayed here by any aesthetic considerations. It can look ugly, and that'll be fine with me (better, in fact - as mentioned, less attractive to theives).

I'm mainly concerned with safety (namely, lessening any chances of the bike esploding out from under me when I am sandwiched between moving vehicles), and in the interest of avoiding knee surgery, having working gears...obviously this specific repair affects both those concerns directly.

JohnDThompson 

The most likely scenario is that the derailleur wasn't adjusted properly and shifted into the spokes, causing the damage.

What type of scenario did you have in mind that would also affect the non-drive side dropout?

dedhed

OK, still have the DS dropout. Marked "69" . Taking measurements that most likely could be done on your bike it's about 1.295" where you could measure between the tubes right at the existing dropout. 2.115" on the outside. See attached.


If this won't work and you decide to weld the existing I wouldn't lock myself into bike shops to repair it. Some of the best welders at the cheapest prices are small welding job shops and motorcycle shops. They are often used to these small custom jobs with special requirements.

I'd also look at welding small reinforcement plates across the break. On this one there is a nice flat at the adjustment screw that would allow a plate to be added without interfering with the QR or derailleur unless the wheel was set all the way back.

pgoat

Oh that's so awesome - thanks so much for the pics. I will measure what my '62' is at home tonight and let you know asap.

cale

What I meant by PC is that I didn't want to get into a flame war just because I had a opinion contrary to that of the others in general.

I don't know where you live in NY but I spent a number of years in Brooklyn and enjoyed the company of cyclists of all types. I would be very surprised to learn that used bikes meeting your criteria couldn't be found at a fair price. With that in mind, i think a very viable alternative is to buy a used bike for its frame and either ride it as it (because it otherwise matches the broken bike) or swap over components from the Trek.

It is just an option but one that hasn't been suggested. Maybe you would reach a somewhat different audience in "Commuting". Being here in Mechanics may only reveal a "mechanic's" solution. One of several solutions you might consider.

cale

A frame crushed in shipping and then "cold" repaired. But it really has nothing to do with what I could imagine because the causes of a crushing mishap are too numerous to write at length. Besides, you sound defensive and I want you to "Win".

The inability to make a more complete assessment of the entire frame makes me less confident of the frame's condition, not more.

pgoat

I think the incident I alluded to before may have stressed the right side dropout; about two months ago, I came up to a traffic light at the top of a small hill on my commute. Normally I'm in a big gear here, because it's a long straight slightly downhill road, which crests upwards about 2% or so, only in the middle - right where there's a light - then it dips back down again.....so, if it looks like you'll have the green, it's easier to stand and honk over the intersection, rather than shift down.

On this particular day, as i approached the intersection at a good clip, there were two cyclists in front of me, riding very slowly and next to each other, blocking passage in the bike lane (cars in traffic prevented me passing out of the bike lane). So, I was forced to stop behind them at a red light I could have easily other wise cruised through.

When the light turned green, I stood up and blew around them, because they were fiddling with their bikes, standing around, etc...well, I forgot I was in 53x17 or something like that - but was determined to get the heck away from them...so I just stood and mashed hard. Suddenly my rear wheel locked up, and my bike skidded sideways...it was scary, though I was going slowly enough that I could get a foot down and come to a safe stop. But it was a violent force on the bike - the rear wheel had pulled forward and jammed into the frame, on a slight angle...I am sure that this could have bent or twisted the dropout and I just didn't notice. Maybe not; shifting seemed the same afterwards, but at the very least the incident must have stressed the frame. I had skidded sideways with sufficient force/torque/etc. that I had rolled the tire off the rim, popped the inner tube and deformed the rim with a lateral blip (naturally, it was a brand new Mavic Open Pro - I had just retired my last one, with about 10000 miles on it ). My drive chain actually exploded and flew across the road in pieces.

On top of all that, it's a 29 year old frame, with at least the 12-15000 miles I've logged on it in the past ten years, usually mashing the big ring with a slow cadence, and I weigh 220ish and ride on badly potholed roads...It's kind of amazing the bike hasn't broken before!

This, btw, is a factor in my considering fixing the old steel frame, rather than buy a new Aluminum one, like a Performance Scattante. I know the Trek is old and even if a dropout fix is perfect, it could easily fail elsewhere at any time. But at least I wouldn't be subjecting a possibly more fragile new frame to very rough daily use...if I'm wrong and the Performance is a stronger, safer bet, please feel free to tell me.

pgoat

Understood; I came here first to get the technical aspects I lacked on this, because we have some very knowledgeable folks on BF. I figured it was a relatively typical break that people might have good experience with.

With regards to picking up something else, yes of course, I'm keeping my ears to the ground. In the wake of bike lanes, citibike, etc there are a LOT more people out there commuting in NYC and the costs for old beater bikes has climbed considerably within the city. I have no car, so I've missed out on some great deals in the surrounding suburbs. I found a beautiful mid-80s Nishiki on par with my bike, only $250 with a spare set of wheels...whereas, people a subway ride away ask $500-700ish for a similar condition bike. That's quite a premium to pay...

I'm still looking because deals do pop up, but it's hit or miss. I happened to score this old Trek for $200 10 years ago, because I had just junked my old Miyata commuter...I lucked out and found this one - in my size - almost immediately. Just gotta be in the right place, at the right time...

I've looked over the frame from time to time, because, for all the reasons already mentioned, I know it's had a hard life. I also had a top shop here inspect it, but that was when it went from club rides to commutes. I hear what you're saying, and I get that paying for a dropout repair, even if that goes well, is a gamble on an older bike.