JohnDThompson 

Not to pull rank or anything, but how much actual experience do you have in repairing frames in general and replacing dropouts in particular? I've done plenty over the past several decades, and the only time I've needed to replace a non-drive side dropout is to make it match the replacement I was brazing into the drive side.

FBinNY 

+1

I've never even heard of a failed left side dropout, except from a severe crash. The type of failure at issue here is NOT a fatigue failure, it's a stress failure.

Dropouts do sometimes suffer fatigue failures, but not that way. Fatigue failures happen in the connection to the stays. The back of the U doesn't suffer fatigue for the simple reason that there's no movement or deflection there. The slot is well supported by the axle and QR faces and is very stable. Breakage there is either from an event like the RD getting jammed and pulling it open, a ham fisted mechanic horsing on the hanger without a wheel securely in place, or a similar cause.

BTW- based on prior history here on BF, and my own knowledge which dovetails well, I'd far more trust JT's answer here than the general and nebulous worries you bring up.

pgoat

fwiw, I did look at the other side and that dropout looks okay (straight, undamaged) to me... whereas the drive side remnant still attached has some visible twisting.

The RD hanger fragment that broke off is noticeably twisted.

FBinNY 

Which supports the notion that it broke because the RD jammed into the spokes and pushed (pulled?) it back. The part should be put into a vice and a 10x1 bolt used to pull it back into line before welding. Then the hanger can be held together with a nut and bolt at the front of the slot while the joint is welded, or at least tacked.

Keep in mind that you need to be sure a wheel is tight in the dropout before tweaking the hanger. This should be SOP anyway, so it's not special to the repair, just more important.

CliffordK

Good point.

If one has (or has built) a hanger adjuster tool, then it is aligned with respect to the wheel, so naturally the wheel must be installed.

The dropout that dedhed posted looks very nice, assuming it is a match. But, the simple weld should be cheaper, and should be possible to do in just about any machine shop. The dropout replacement is likely more specialized.

dedhed

Oh, I don't know - my 12 year old removed it, mostly just because she thinks the oxy/acyt torch is "awesome". That's exactly the same as brazing it correctly back in place isn't it?

pgoat

has anyone used one of these before? I might try that in future...for now, I already removed the RD and chain to prep the bike for stripping or repair, so won't be riding it as is.

wrk101

Location is everything. Here in Hooterville, I can find a nicer frame for less than that. But the poster is in NYC, and lacks transportation to drive out to the boonies to scoop up a deal.

Can't buy a parking space in NYC for what my house is worth.

Of course, OP could wander over to the C & V forum, and check out one of the frames for sale. Even with shipping, he would probably come out even $$ wise, and have something with nicer cosmetics, less wear, etc.

pgoat

Thank you for that - this fiscal inequity thing comes up more on here than you can imagine. I am extremely jealous when i see the nice old bikes folks pick up for a song in more peaceful quiet parts of the country. Truth is there is a lot to love about a big city - my problem is, I make a salary more in keeping with small town America, so dropping $500 on an old mid-line DT shift steel bike is daunting for me.

I had no clue people posted bikes and frames there...if the dropout repair proves too difficult or expensive I'll gladly take a look there.

The local frame guy is in next week, which coincides with the arrival of a very generously donated spare dropout from dedhed. I'm bringing the injured Trek in to figure out what my options are. I know everyone says they'll post pics of their bike outcomes (and often don't, creating yet one more eternally cliffhanger thread), but i promise i will post info and/or pics here - hopefully with a happy ending.

miamijim

Junk it.

If you get a hole in the soles of your shoes what do you do?

Life's too short to ride cobbled stuff...

CliffordK

The OP's problem, of course, is that he doesn't have enough dropout left to bolt in the axle.

Even if the axle would hold in place with half a QR, it probably wouldn't withstand the forward torque from the chain.

pgoat

I hear you but again, this would be to lock up on the street, and theft seems to be on the rise around here. Someone parks a sweet old 501 frame and fork Peugeot right near my old Trek every day - some one just stole his wheel. I like my weekend bikes in pristine shape but this one needs to be ugly as sin to deter attention. (PS I saw that Lemond today - I passed on it but no way would that have been locked on the street - it looked way more bling than I expected...)


Yes, I doubted this would have even worked in my case, but that's kind of a neat fix if it can work. I could see that being very handy to carry along on a long touring trip.

dedhed

Location, location, location. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/5137463775.html

pgoat

LOL. I could buy that, pay for shipping - and pay someone to ship it - and it still would probably be cheaper than buying it here.

there's always gradations, too. I live in one of the outer boroughs of nyc, which are less pricey than Manhattan. We stayed out near the Hamptons last summer ('near' - not the Hamptons proper) and I had a few mini heart attacks while paying for breakfast. I'm talking a bagel and cup of coffee, nothing fancy. we're talking like $35 for two people...holy insanity, Batman.

cale

Life in NYC is like nowhere else I've been, that's for sure. Wake up to a $35 bagel one day, ride your beater (so it won't be stolen) into work the next. A city of contrasts.


But I also remember the good honest value that so many folks offered strangers. I've met auto repairmen that actually repair cars! And do it extremely well at a fair price. (Yes, I lived in Brooklyn's Prospect Park and kept a car. ) So don't sell short the idea of finding a repair that is cost effective and durable.

Don't shop for used bikes when you're buzzing the Hamptons unless at a "carriage house" sale. Haha.

pgoat

yup, welcome to my world.

But yes, there are still good values to be had. And the people here are as nice or not nice as anywhere else - we're all just so crowded & rushed that we act snarky most of the time.

But when people need help, NYers come through, just like anywhere else - I just saw an incident the other day, where a senior citizen was having a major problem - it was so awesome to see how many people stopped and came to her aid, giving her comfort and sticking up for her. Restores one's faith in humanity and whatnot...

pgoat

So I've received a very generous dropout donation from dedhed (thanks again!)

Holding it up alongside my dropout you can see where they are very very close, but just a hair off (my dropout's angle is 62 degrees; the donor replacement is from a larger frame and is 69).

I was wondering - and feel free to tell if this is a really dumb thought - using very helpful advice from John Thompson, I plan to suggest the welder begin by making the chain stay portion line up; and then fit the seat stay as best possible.

Would it make any sense or help to try and file the seat stay of my frame to an angled edge - just to make it sit more flush inside the upper socket of the new dropout? It still won't enter at the correct angle, but envisioning how it is sitting inside the dropout, I though it might seat better that way.

Again, I am no frame builder or welder, so if that's a dumb idea, or wouldn't make any difference, I wouldn't be surprised.

JohnDThompson 

Yup. That's exactly what you should do if it doesn't seat fully in the socket without modification.

xiaoman1 

Well MJ, If I like the shoes I resole them.....I just repaired the rear drop on my over 40 year old Gios and did not scrap it as some of my LBS's suggested, just hard to find the parts... nothing wrong with repairing if cost effective/affordable.
The OP has a number of choices and options to make, interesting to note that a complete frame can be bought for a little more than a repair.
A lot of time discussing with great options/opinions.....I say buy what you can, ride what you can, ...enjoy what you have...life "is" too short, enjoy it.
JM2C's, Ben

cale

I'm pretty sure that's going to void your warranty! Haha

pgoat

Awesome! Thanks John.

I realized after posting I was trying to remember the term 'miter cut.' Not sure if that is entirely accurate here, but no matter, as long as my point was clear.

I'm feeling good about this now. Looks like I'll have a couple of options...it'll just come down to price.

pgoat

As a guy who appreciates fine shoes, yes, indeed, the whole selling point of them is they can be rebuilt several times with new soles and heels. Something you usually don't do with, say sneakers or casual shoes. Which is why I do see MJ's point. To be honest, my very first thought when the Trek broke (besides 'crap - now I gotta walk home' and 'hey-how will I get to work tomorrow?') was 'okay, now I'm forced to dump this old frankenstein cobbled bike and get something nicer.'

There's a joy for me in mending things that still can provide good service - especially when it is more prudent to do so than replacing. I think my initial near elation at having the excuse to go buy or build up a new commuter was gradually invaded upon by the reality that in this specific case, it's still going to be a bike locked up everyday outside. So, no matter what I did - new bike, new frame, used bike, old frame - it would have to wind up looking as battle scarred and ugly as the bike I've been riding.

Which begs the question - if it can be fixed, provide a safe ride, and function adequately (i.e. shift properly in the rear), I think in my case the deciding factor is: would it make more sense (to me) than buying a new frame?

Even if I went with the most expensive repair option (two new dropouts) there's something to be said for then hopping back on a bike I am used to, and not having to do a tear down and rebuild (call me lazy). I do think if it came to that - around the $300 mark, I'd just go new frame.

I'm confident I'll be able to either fix the broken dropout or use the donor replacement, and am hoping that will keep me under $175ish, which I can live with to get back to commuting on two wheels.

JohnDThompson 

Just remove the minimal amount needed to fully seat the stay. You don't want to shorten the stay significantly or that will introduce other problems.

pgoat

That makes sense; Thanks again!

pgoat

Okay - it's on!

All went well so far; I spoke to the guy just now and he said no worries, he's worked on the Trek IC dropouts before and the angle issue should be fine. I also spoke to him about the centering screws and he's going to put that right as well.

Total charge, $150. Thanks to dedhed's generosity, I saved some dough, as the guy said he may have had some extras laying around but that would have made it more money.

Given he's removing and replacing, I am totally fine with that cost.

Should be done in a week or so...very excited to see the results and very very grateful to everyone here for their input.

I shall absolutely post a pic or two of the finished product...