Stucky

Thanks, that's helpful. Just the kind of observations I was hoping to see.

I guess the classic steel frame failures now are to be expected, considering the age of the bikes- I mean, just about any material made light enough to be suitable as a bike, is going to fail at some point. The interesting thing will be to see if we still have a lot of today's CF frames around 30-40 years from now.

While I'm not prejudiced against CF, I must say that I don't necessarily buy into the "It's strong enough for airplanes/Mustang rims" logic. I'd be willing to bet that those planes have either alloy reinforcements/frameworks, or at least thick reinforced CF ribs to strengthen the structure; and those rims are probably made a lot thicker/heavier than a bicycle frame. The issue isn't so much "Is CF striong?"- it is strong- but rather, is it strong enough to when used sparingly to make light bicycle frames, to endure time/atmosphere/abuse?

I do believe that current CF frames are sufficiently strong to endure normal use today- but the question in my mind, is will they become brittle over time, or degrade due to atmospheric effects?.

I do find the Chinese open-mold frames very interesting. If I were to try another CF bike, it would be a Chinese. (For some reason, I'm really itching to build one up, and custom paint it- but then I think of what it would cost, and know I'd regret not having gotten a nice vintage steel bike with that money instead! )

Stucky

Very, very true, Maalox [ ]

I do love my Klein- but even despite the fact that it has endured for 19 years thus far, I do imagine it as being rather fragile (It already has a dent in the downtube). I like to try different things- especially when it comes to bikes. I tried CF....may even try it again one day; I do seem to like steel the best- but I've never tried TI, and I haven't ridden steel in many years, so I may feel differently about it today, after having ridden CF and AL....who knows?

I don't like to obsess over bikes though. If it has 2 wheels and air in the tires...pedal it, and enjoy! But it is fun to try different things- especially with there being so much variety out there. Will I get a vintage steelie next (I do love DeRosas!) or will I build up a Chinarello? Maybe I'll do both! It's all part of the fun.

andr0id

Without looking at why they broke, the poll is of limited value.
Your assumption that it is the "frame's fault" needs to be examined.

There are a lot more noobs buying CF and newbs crash more frequently and then break those CF frames.

unterhausen

all bicycles are relatively durable. All bicycles see a certain number of failures. I don't think you are going to get the answers that you want
I recently saw a fairly new steel frame (Surley Long Haul Trucker) that was going to be recycled. The owner had really managed to trash it, there wasn't much worth salvaging on it.

My LBS sees a fairly decent number of broken frames. I would say that most of them are metal. My friend had a broken carbon frame, seems like it was a manufacturing defect

FBinNY 

While I voted for "see more broken frames" which is the truth, it's not the whole story. One reason we're seeing more broken frames is because more more people are riding high performance bikes designed and marketed based on minimum weight.

Bicycle weight has been declining for decades. At some point, even with "better" materials, we get closer to the wall, and more are likely to fall (fail).

There's no engineering reason that we can't build carbon frames that are a bit heavier and much stronger, but we don't because it's a contradiction of marketing concepts. CF is marketed to save weight, and steel for higher strength. Doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

Stucky

True- but the same was al;so the case [Newb crashes, and other incidents which weren't a result of normal use] back when all frames were metal. So yes, TODAY one would no-doubt see more damaged/broken CF frames, just because of the fact that they now make up the majority of bikes which road riders ride today- which is why I phrased my poll the way I did- comparing what one sees today, with what they saw years ago when CF was non-existent/much less common.

I mean, look, right here on this forum, we often see people with CF bikes which may barely be a year old, and which weren't crashed, who just noticed a crack in their frame for no apparent reason- and have to get a warranty replacement. In fact, I've seen a few examples of posters who had that happen twice over a short period of time. I'm thinking that that probably wasn't something one saw when all frames were metal. I mean, I rode in the 1970's, and quite frankly, things like frame warranties weren't an issue, because no one worried about them breaking, unless of course they were hit by a truck or something.

Today though, would anyone buy a new CF bike which didn't have a frame warranty? Did bikes in the 70's and 80's even come with warranties? Maybe I was just ignorant- but I bought a new bike in 1976, and the idea of a warranty didn't even cross my mind. You handed over the money; took the bike out of the store; and as far as I was concerned, that was it- it was yours. You could ride the bike over curbs; ride a passenger on it; and the idea of the frame breaking didn't even cross your mind. You knew that that bike would still be around long after you got tired of it. Heck, I had a friend who purposely tried to destroy his bike...and couldn't!

Stucky

Very good point! People used to just ride a bike. Today, a lot of people like to pretend that they are training for the TDF You're absolutely right- a lot more people were riding 35 lb. Schwinns years ago. How many were riding 17 lb. bikes? How many are riding 35 lb. bikes today?!

unterhausen

when I worked in a bike shop 30-odd years ago, we saw plenty of frames that probably should have been retired because of crashes. But since they were still holding up, people would keep riding them. Even steel frames of today are built lighter, so damage is more severe.

fietsbob

Yea, The ones robustly made Like Surly's LHT & Trek's 520, people wail about how Heavy they are ..

If You Bought a Trek New In 1976, [& saving the receipts?] they still Honor the warrantee,

though they wont get you another 76 US Made frame ..

curbtender

I think it would be a productive thread if you were talking about failures while used as intended instead of due to accidents. There was a period where lugged CF was failing and derailleur hangers were non sacrificial. I buy broken frames all the time for parts and the ones that were broken by beef eaters usually failed at the BB or seat tube.

Brian25

Besides polling mechanics, I would check Google about the subject of carbon and steel frames breaking. Honestly, Google is your friend. Simply google "Images for broken carbon bicycle. and compare what you find with "broken steel bicycle". More people are probably riding carbon bikes, but it should give you some idea.