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3x2 drivetrain for touring

Old 10-02-22, 02:43 PM
  #26  
Bill Kapaun
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
For that weight and wheel dish I'd rather carry a lighter 11-25 steel cone and two front rings, plus chain line is worse. This is the worst of all worlds
Exactly what's the weight difference?
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Old 10-03-22, 05:42 AM
  #27  
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Better setup would be a Sturmey Archer 3 speed with 2 cogs.
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Old 10-03-22, 07:12 AM
  #28  
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Looks like the closest alternative would be 50/26T front with a 16/19 dual freewheel cog and a 27T cog on the other side of the hub with a tensioner

This would be 83 gear inches top gear and 43 low gear on 16T with the ability to switch manually to 19T for 36 to 70 gear inches. 27T cog would be cumbersome to set up but results in a 25 to 50 inches two-speed range
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Old 10-03-22, 08:06 AM
  #29  
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A colleague had a folding Brompton with a similar set up. On a long ride, the chain tensioner fell off and we could not find the pieces. It was ride-able but very frustrating. I don't believe your set up would be any more reliable or have less drag than a regular derailleur.
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Old 10-03-22, 08:15 AM
  #30  
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Here is my simple alternative to this. A dingle speed.
It has both a 17-21 fixed cog and freewheel on the flip flop hub. The chainrings are 46x42.
This gives me 2 very usable gears with the same length chain. the 21-42 is 55gi and the 17-46 is 75gi. Not the ratios you are looking for but much simpler setup.



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Old 10-03-22, 08:25 AM
  #31  
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Yeah I looked for the 17/21 Surly cogs but they are out of production. White Industries are the only ones making something similar
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Old 10-03-22, 06:31 PM
  #32  
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Too aggressive to attempt to tour on this but will test drive it locally. Thanks
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Old 10-03-22, 06:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Looks like the closest alternative would be 50/26T front with a 16/19 dual freewheel cog and a 27T cog on the other side of the hub with a tensioner

This would be 83 gear inches top gear and 43 low gear on 16T with the ability to switch manually to 19T for 36 to 70 gear inches. 27T cog would be cumbersome to set up but results in a 25 to 50 inches two-speed range
I'd like to see the front derailleur that can make a 24t jump with nothing in the middle.
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Old 10-03-22, 09:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
I'd like to see the front derailleur that can make a 24t jump with nothing in the middle.
That too, hopefully it's not battery operated
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Old 10-03-22, 09:28 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Looks like the closest alternative would be 50/26T front with a 16/19 dual freewheel cog and a 27T cog on the other side of the hub with a tensioner

This would be 83 gear inches top gear and 43 low gear on 16T with the ability to switch manually to 19T for 36 to 70 gear inches. 27T cog would be cumbersome to set up but results in a 25 to 50 inches two-speed range
I think at this point you have kind of pushed this a bit too far.

You started out with a triple crank and 2 cogs, but having to stop to move the chain was a problem.

Everyone ran around with suggestions and now you’re contemplating a double crank with 2 cogs that you have to stop to move the chain thus making a full 360 but with one less chainring on your Biopace crank. Why would you even do that?

I get the impression this light touring bike may only exist in your head.

But if I’m wrong, just run your original 3x2 as I doubt there is any other solution to meet your wants.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 10-04-22 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-04-22, 11:23 AM
  #36  
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Why?
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Old 10-04-22, 11:45 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by wheelreason View Post
Why?
I believe the OP has mistakenly put too much emphasis on drivetrain friction and optimum working chainline. Modern bushingless chains are much more flexible.

There is some merit of running fewer cogs and friction shifting. Those who are not interested in optimum performance and can live with larger gaps can ride along however they want.

He is also under the impression that a no dish wheel will be much more durable. While technically true, a poorly made no dish wheel will not hold up as well as a properly made dished wheel. But running fewer cogs and keeping to 126mm OLD or less should be more than durable. Even more so for light touring and modern rims.

I could see a vintage gearing setup of a 3x5 with the 26-38-50 and a 13-16-20-26-34, or there abouts. This more than covers his gear inches and lets him ride in the 38t the majority of the time.

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Old 10-04-22, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I think at this point you have kind of pushed this a bit too far.

You started out with a triple crank and 2 cogs, but having to stop to move the chain was a problem.

Everyone ran around with suggestions and now you’re contemplating a double crank with 2 cogs that you have to stop to move the chain thus making a full 360 but with one less chainring on your Biopace crank. Why would you even do that?

I get the impression this light touring bike may only exist in your head.
Of course it's in my head. I'm designing and sourcing parts for it right now. What kind of comment is that?

I appreciate the suggestions but apparently I'm okay with moving the chain manually.

If a symmetric wheel is stronger I can run it with fewer spokes and reduce drag. What's with the grump sauce
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Old 10-04-22, 01:18 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Of course it's in my head. I'm designing and sourcing parts for it right now. What kind of comment is that?

I appreciate the suggestions but apparently I'm okay with moving the chain manually.

If a symmetric wheel is stronger I can run it with fewer spokes and reduce drag. What's with the grump sauce
Sorry I didn't explain myself. It is a theoretical bike, not an actual bike.

No one would look at fewer spokes on a touring bike to reduce drag a nearly immeasurable amount while there is enormous aerodynamic drag from the panniers. It makes no sense in the real world.

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Old 10-04-22, 03:12 PM
  #40  
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Exactly, that's why this one has triathlon aero bars instead of panniers. Great minds think alike
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Old 10-04-22, 04:24 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Of course it's in my head. I'm designing and sourcing parts for it right now. What kind of comment is that?

I appreciate the suggestions but apparently I'm okay with moving the chain manually.

If a symmetric wheel is stronger I can run it with fewer spokes and reduce drag. What's with the grump sauce
that is basically silly

drag for the wheel for touring is not a factor even without panniers or what ever you are carrying.

peopled have toured all over the world with standard asymmetrical spoke set ups
more spokes is better in a lot of ways, like if you break on a low spoke count wheel you have wheel that will be unrideable fast, but you can get away with a broken spoke on a 32 or 36 spoke count wheel

Over all very little of your design ideas seem based in practicality or reality of touring, especially in an sort of hils

good luck but don't be surprised with a little grumpus on focus on non issues vs real world
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Old 10-04-22, 04:30 PM
  #42  
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Sure, and if you're riding on a dished wheel you need more spokes cause they break quicker, so who's right?
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Old 10-04-22, 04:49 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Sure, and if you're riding on a dished wheel you need more spokes cause they break quicker, so who's right?
as a lawyer would say: facts not in evidence

Show where properly built wheel ( even tensions, double buttted stainless spokes, 3 cross, on good quality rims) breaks spokes frequently. I am a big guy and have thousands of mile on builds like that with out a broken spoke

your theory is not supported by any evidence
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Old 10-04-22, 07:56 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by JISO View Post
Exactly, that's why this one has triathlon aero bars instead of panniers. Great minds think alike
I'm hoping I'm not included in that group.

John
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Old 10-05-22, 06:08 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
as a lawyer would say: facts not in evidence

Show where properly built wheel ( even tensions, double buttted stainless spokes, 3 cross, on good quality rims) breaks spokes frequently. I am a big guy and have thousands of mile on builds like that with out a broken spoke

your theory is not supported by any evidence
Pretty hilarious I need to submit evidence to "prove" that more dish = more spokes = more drag
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Old 10-05-22, 06:09 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I'm hoping I'm not included in that group.

John
Classy
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Old 10-05-22, 02:47 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
as a lawyer would say: facts not in evidence

Show where properly built wheel ( even tensions, double buttted stainless spokes, 3 cross, on good quality rims) breaks spokes frequently. I am a big guy and have thousands of mile on builds like that with out a broken spoke

your theory is not supported by any evidence
Me too. I have thousands of miles on my Surly LHT, carrying a lot of weight, no broken spokes, and they are still true. I did have them detensioned and retensioned by hand when I bought the bike. That is something I always do to a new machine built rim.

The rims have been bullet proof.
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