Hello Friends, Wondering if or when the time comes ,what's involved in removing and reinstalling rear dropouts on a chrome moly steel frame? Replacing stamped steel dropouts with cast or similar?

This would be a good question to move to the frame builders sub-forum but I imagine it will be cutting out the old dropouts off cleaning up the area from paint and welding new dropouts on in a jig. It would probably not be a cost effective solution if the frame is a lower initial cost frame and if it is a nice handbuilt frame I would think that would really only be a situation you would need in a crash or some serious mangling of the bike and in that case I would reach out to the builder and see what they say.

I own 4 steel bikes and have had several others in the past and haven't once thought about replacing dropouts on any of them nor have had any issues with them. The only time I might consider replacing a dropout is to run different wheels or convert a frame to maybe a single speed or something or maybe if it is an integrated hanger and the hanger cannot be bent back or is broken.

Is it possible he means “derailleur hanger?”

I don't think so, steel frames don't generally have replaceable hangers and he mentions the types of steel dropouts.

Are the dropouts brazed or welded to the stays?

Yeah, I guess so. Just the whole “when the time comes” statement. Like dropouts are consumables.

Stamped steel dropouts generally come on low quality frames - likely not worth repairing or upgrading.

This is not a normal concern.

Dropout replacements (on a steel frame at least) are one of those jobs that sounds so easy and pat but often turns out to be harder than expected, even when done by those with some building experience. If the replacements are the exact same the job is less challenging but if the dropouts are different expect some stay manipulations at the least. If there's chrome involved, I would walk away. While a jig does make some aspects easier it is not at all needed.

I view dropout replacements not due to incident damage to be an indication that the bike might not be the better choice for the intended use. Andy

Exactly, I do a lot of business with our local frame builder and and something like ten years ago paid $125 to replace a damaged dropout (w/o paint )on a Pinarello and the ugly burned paint at the ends of the chain and seat stay is still there.

I'd rub it down and spray a fade into the original paint - usually just black or white, whichever suits it better, rather than trying to colour match.

Some quite nice old frames had stamped dropouts, which can be too thin to work well with qr hubs. They also often don't have derailleur hangers, requiring a claw to mount the rear mech. If you like the frame enough to get it repainted you might as well upgrade the ends too.
OTOH if it's a newer frame with stamped ends it's probably not worth the effort or cost.

So the best way to replace dropouts is to replace the frame (or bike) and get "new" dropouts with the replacement?

The first question is whether they're brazed or welded.

Brazed joints can be taken apart with both parts undamaged, so replacing a brazed dropout is fairly straightforward.

Welded dropouts can only be taken apart by hacksaw, so replacement must be thought about very carefully.

FWIW, I'd never consider replacing a dropout except where one is damaged on an otherwise high quality frame. An upgrade like the OP us considering makes little sense, except as a skill building exercise.

The way I've replaced brazed dropouts is to cut the dropout into two pieces and sweat each piece out of its stay separately:

But what are you hoping to improve by replacing the stamped dropouts on your frame? I wouldn't fix it if it's not broken. Forged dropouts tend to be thicker than stamped dropouts, and will require widening the insertion slot. Some cast dropouts are socketed, and the stay angles may need to match those of the sockets.

Hey All seriously appreciate the replies! So I crashed the bike a few months ago., Caused the derailleur to seriously lodge it self into the spokes. Thank goodness another very kind cyclist turned all the way around riding in the opposite direction ( a rarity for sure, gos to show still some kind thoughtful people in this otherwise insane mean spirited world) Saw me carrying the bike on my shoulder and gave me a hand straightening things out enough to ride home in a single gear. (The original ARX derailleur was toast) Thanked him profusely. And made my way home. Turns out the the rear dropouts are made from some extremely tough steel, high carbon steel possibly? Had to use a good size adjustable wrench for enough leverage to straighten and align, it does shift smoothly fortunately friction shifting, tend to think index may have been more of a problem? According to a guy who used to sell Motobecane, Jubilee Sport was supposedly upper middle tier. Hence my question regarding dropout replacement . Really like this bike, think it's pretty cool vintage. just installed a pair of 60.00 Schwalbe Marathon + tires these tires completely transformed the ride quality, waiting on a pair of Campy Chorus monoplaner calipers.

Looking up the Jubilee Sport, it appears this model has forged dropouts, not stamped. If you've gotten it shifting decently now, there's no compelling reason to replace the dropout. Indexed shifting should also be possible, if you use a proper derailleur hanged alignment tool to set the hanger alignment, although depending on what components you intend to use, you may need to spread the stays to fit the wheel, which would require resetting the dropout face alignment and making sure that the wheel is still on the frame axis.

If you are qualified to perform this kind of repair, why are you consulting a bunch of wrench-twiddlers on how to do it? I mean, removing a busted dropout with a torch and brazing on a new one requires a very different skill set from installing a pair of Schwalbe Marathon tires.

No that's not what I was trying to say. "I view dropout replacements not due to incident damage to be an indication that the bike might not be the better choice for the intended use" (me)

I am questioning the value of replacing dropouts on a bike that doesn't meet your standards (or what you seem to suggest are your wants WRT dropouts and perhaps more?). Andy

You REALLY should move this question to the Frame Builders sub-Forum.. and include what Style (Road, BMX, MTB, Track,etc.) and brand of frame you are talking about. Some people here are making assumptions that shouldn't be made.

https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/

Sorry, FBinNY Im late here , but yes, the seat and chain stay does appear to be brazed. Supposedly, the Jubilee Sport when through some back and forth dropout changes . Here is a picture on the drive side






over time

Hmm, Skill set? Retired HD Eq. Mech. here. Been welding and fabricating automotive and AG equipment since my late 20's . going on 69.. Just looking for some advice/ guidance/maybe someone has first hand experience here. Was unaware we have a Frame builders forum. My bad!

So not stamped, and not broken.

Any sort of competent replacement of your dropouts would be at least a little expensive and would destroy the paint in that area. You can buy a frameset of that quality for $50. Up to you whether there is any reason to go forward with a repair, but I can't see any.

I will agree that these dropouts look to be "better" than simple plate steel stampings. Given the shaping I suspect they have been "formed" by serious pressure, whether one calls that "forging" is not for me to say.

I also agree with John and others who say don't replace a working thing.

It's also nice to have the full story with to best understand what is actually going on. The more data we have the sooner the fewer assumptions we will make as we try to help. Andy

those were most likely Stamped, Forged, then Machined.
some are Cast,, then forged and machined.
some BMX, "waterpipe", Aluminum, and single speed dropouts are Stamped then machined, since they are typically flat and don't require being shaped by a forge.

Cast Dropouts are stiffer, but cracks can more easily form in the material if it's bent then straightened.

rolled steel has a longer grain structure that limits cracking when bent, but is also more easily bent in the first place. rolled steel sheets are used as the base material for Stamped Dropouts.

Removing and reinstalling rear dropouts on a chrome moly steel frame can be quite involved. You'll need to carefully cut the old dropouts, ensuring not to damage the surrounding frame. After that, you'll need to align and weld the new dropouts in place, which requires precision and experience. It's best to consult a professional welder or frame builder if you're not experienced with this type of work. Good luck with it