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tips for removing fixed cup bottom bracket?

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tips for removing fixed cup bottom bracket?

Old 10-08-11, 05:22 PM
  #1  
Harun
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tips for removing fixed cup bottom bracket?

I have an older bike with an adjustable type bottom bracket. I've managed to take off the adjustable side (the lockring and adjustable cup), but I'm having trouble removing the fixed cup.

this is the tool I've been trying to remove it with (the 36mm wrench side): http://www.parktool.com/product/cran...t-wrench-hcw-4

The adjustable side required some force to remove but I got it loose the first try. The fixed side is another story. And yes, I'm turning the right way - since I know the BB is English threaded. I'm just afraid I'm going to pull something.

actually after going through Sheldon Brown's page on bottom bracket tool tips, I've realized that the tool i posted might not be effective enough to remove the fixed cup.

tl;dr should I just bring it to the shop where they probably have the right tool to remove the fixed cup?
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Old 10-08-11, 05:24 PM
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ultraman6970
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I would use a vice and use the frame as a lever, the stuff some out right away.
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Old 10-08-11, 06:38 PM
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Leverage is what you need. A couple home brew options that work if you don't have a vice.

1. Use bolts and (very wide) washers through the cup to attach the tool to the cup. This will eliminate any side ways loss of torque and greatly help.
2. If #1 is still not sufficient, pry bar time. I've used a 2 inch steel pipe with that tool before. Yes it's awkward because 2" is way too much but good luck finding a pipe between 1" and 2".

I'm not a fan of Sheldon's bolt method. I'm not sure what supplies and cups he was working with when he discovered that but, yeah good luck with that (hint: bolts will spin since there's nothing for them to grip on).
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Old 10-08-11, 07:58 PM
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VAR makes a tool that makes it very simple, but the tool probably costs $100. Our shop has one and I use it all the time and love it. Ask if your bike shop has one, I would only charge you $5 if you brought it to me with the cranks out.
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Old 10-09-11, 07:38 PM
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The first question you should ask yourself is "is it really necessary for me to remove the fixed cup?"

Unless you have a compelling reason to do so, just leave it in place. Clean it out in place, replace worn bearings and/or spindle, repack and enjoy.
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Old 10-09-11, 07:54 PM
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+1

Why do you want to remove the fixed cup? Unless you are replacing the whole BB with a cartridge unit it is not necessary.
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Old 10-09-11, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by trevor_ash View Post
I'm not a fan of Sheldon's bolt method. I'm not sure what supplies and cups he was working with when he discovered that but, yeah good luck with that (hint: bolts will spin since there's nothing for them to grip on).
It works very well. The bolts spin until it is tight enough, but it will seize and cup and turn it at some point.
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Old 10-09-11, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The first question you should ask yourself is "is it really necessary for me to remove the fixed cup?"

Unless you have a compelling reason to do so, just leave it in place. Clean it out in place, replace worn bearings and/or spindle, repack and enjoy.
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
+1

Why do you want to remove the fixed cup? Unless you are replacing the whole BB with a cartridge unit it is not necessary.
If you have asked yourself this question, and still wish
to proceed, look here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...2#post11769729

Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
It works very well. The bolts spin until it is tight enough, but it will seize and cup and turn it at some point.
Regrettably, this is not always the case. Trust me because
I've done a bunch of these in my life and on a frame where the
sucker has been in place for twenty or thirty years (or was
installed somewhere along the line with loctite),
you need some way to whack the thing subdue it.
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Old 10-10-11, 07:12 AM
  #9  
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I removed a particularly stubborn one the other day with a set of Mole Grips/Locking Pliers. It's pretty much all I had to hand and worked a treat! They locked onto the flats very well (after a clean) and gave good leverage if I was careful
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Old 10-10-11, 08:43 AM
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I'll assume you really do need to remove the fixed cup so here is how I do it. This is basically the way that trevor_ash mentioned but i'll fill in the details.

Get a 4" long 5/8" bolt, a nut and two large diamerer washers.

1. Remove the adjustable cup, spindle and bearings and then thread the adjustable cup back in a several turns.
2. Put one washer on the bolt and feed the bolt through the adjustable cup and out the fixed cup.
3. Place your bottom bracket wrench over the flats on the fixed cup and then add the second washer to the bolt outside of the wrench.
4. Thread on the nut snugly to trap the bb wrench between the frame and the washer.
5. You can then apply a lot of torque to the wrench without fear of it slipping. I found the use of a heavy mallet on the wrench as an impact tool was very effective.
6. As soon as the fixed cup turns even a little bit, back off the nut as your loosen it further.
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Old 10-10-11, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I'll assume you really do need to remove the fixed cup so here is how I do it. This is basically the way that trevor_ash mentioned but i'll fill in the details.

Get a 4" long 5/8" bolt, a nut and two large diamerer washers.

1. Remove the adjustable cup, spindle and bearings and then thread the adjustable cup back in a several turns.
2. Put one washer on the bolt and feed the bolt through the adjustable cup and out the fixed cup.
3. Place your bottom bracket wrench over the flats on the fixed cup and then add the second washer to the bolt outside of the wrench.
4. Thread on the nut snugly to trap the bb wrench between the frame and the washer.
5. You can then apply a lot of torque to the wrench without fear of it slipping. I found the use of a heavy mallet on the wrench as an impact tool was very effective.
6. As soon as the fixed cup turns even a little bit, back off the nut as your loosen it further.
Precisely! Thanks for taking the time to post that.

BTW, I forgot to mention that ever since I purchased Park's Bearing Cup Press tool I've been using that instead. It just so happens that the main axle fits through the cups I typically work with. http://www.parktool.com/product/bearing-cup-press-hhp-2.
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Old 10-10-11, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
I would use a vice and use the frame as a lever, the stuff some out right away.
The only time I had to remove one this is the way I did it.
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Old 10-10-11, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The first question you should ask yourself is "is it really necessary for me to remove the fixed cup?"

Unless you have a compelling reason to do so, just leave it in place. Clean it out in place, replace worn bearings and/or spindle, repack and enjoy.
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
+1

Why do you want to remove the fixed cup? Unless you are replacing the whole BB with a cartridge unit it is not necessary.
I'll second this!! there is a reason it is called a fixed cup. without a slightly longer handle on that Park tool and something (or some one) to hold it in place you may never get the fixed cup off.

I don't see any mention of threading? is this English or Italian? are you turning in the correct direction?
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Old 10-10-11, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I don't see any mention of threading? is this English or Italian? are you turning in the correct direction?
This was addressed in the OP. He said he knows the bb is English threaded and is turning (or attempting to turn) the fixed cup in the proper direction.
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Old 10-10-11, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
Regrettably, this is not always the case. Trust me because
I've done a bunch of these in my life and on a frame where the
sucker has been in place for twenty or thirty years (or was
installed somewhere along the line with loctite),
you need some way to whack the thing subdue it.
Then you need longer wrenches.
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Old 10-10-11, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Then you need longer wrenches.
Sure. Whatever you say.
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Old 10-11-11, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Then you need longer wrenches.
3alarmer's advice to "whack the thing..." is good. Impact and shock will often loosen stuck fittings better than slowly applied torque. There is a reason automobile tire shops all use impact wrenches to remove wheel nuts.
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Old 10-11-11, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
Sure. Whatever you say.
I say it has worked for me everytime I've gone to it which included bikes up to 30 y.o. with rusty threads. And I do use a long armed ratchet and end wrenches. On one I did brace the frame on the carpeted floor of my basement while still clamped in my stand and had to tap on the drive side wrench to get it loose. But regardless, getting the nut tight enough to seize on the cup is not an issue if you're doing it right. I do agree that there are cases in which just strength may not be enough to break whatever has sealed the threads. I have contemplated using an pneumatic impact wrench to get things moving but have not had to resort to it yet.

For what it's worth, the worst case I have come across I took to a shop and they tried and failed to get it loose. They had tried the vice method but were worried about bending the frame with too much pressure and stopped. The mechanic suggested that if it were his he would attempt to put grooves in the cup with a cut wheel in a dremel and then literally crush it loose with the vice. I ended up getting it loose with the nut/bolt/washer rig so I can't comment on if the mechanics method would actually work. But for some reason I want to try it.

Last edited by canam73; 10-11-11 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
The mechanic suggested that if it were his he would attempt to put grooves in the cup with a cut wheel in a dremel and then literally crush it loose with the vice. I ended up getting it loose with the nut/bolt/washer rig so I can't comment on if the mechanics method would actually work. But for some reason I want to try it.
Weirdly enough, so do I! Maybe grinding the lip off the cup with a dremel might be a possibility as well, it should relieve all the tension in the threads and allow the Sheldon method to remove the cup, even if it's rusted in. That's assuming you can get the lip off the cup without grinding off so much metal that the outer part of the cup comes off and leaves the threaded section in the BB shell, which I don't know about.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:44 AM
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there are tool holders, that use the end of the bb spindle to hold the BB wrench on the fixed cup.

then the wrench won't slip off the flats, on the fixed cup , and you can put an extension
on the end of the wrench ..
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