Any advice on how I can widen this dropout? The frame is columbus steal from a 1985 Schwinn Peloton. I just got the bike today and I believe it was damaged during shipping. It only needs to be widened by a couple of millimeters. Thanks in advance for any help!

Here is a photo of the problem.

Before you do anything, check the very back part where the dropout adjuster starts. Unless my eyes are fooling me, looks like a crack may have developed there.

=8-)

Appears that an impact or pressure from behind or under the dropout caused the issue which may not be as simple a fix as it would seem as the adjuster screw introduces a little extra dynamic to the problem.

One should be able to cold set the dropout back to it's normal width so it will accept the axle but there is a risk the dropout might crack and the most likely place for this would be at the adjuster and one would want to inspect the area closely for any cracks that may form.

One never knows how the steel will respond... if the dropout got cooked during the initial build it could be more brittle and prone to cracking and one would want to isolate the area you are working on as much as possible to ensure stresses are not transmitted into the joints at the stays.

I'd also check the frame alignment just to make sure the impact did not affect this.

I saw that too but I can't tell if its a crack on the surface (paint) or not. What is a good test to see how deep it is? Thanks.

I looked at that and do not know if that was a part of the casting or something else but if there is going to be an issue in correcting this it will be in this spot where the dropout is the weakest.

Thanks - can you please explain what you mean by cold set?

Cold setting refers to bending steel at room temperatures which is pretty common when frames are being built and when corrections to small misalignment are made... steel can withstand this as long as the area has not been taken past it's elastic limits as this is when cracks/ breaks form and when it comes to this steel can withstand more bending and reshaping than any other material.

Hot setting refers to bringing the steel up to working temperatures where it becomes easier to reshape but tends to be rather destructive to paint finishes and is usually applied to raw frames... we have re-spaced tandems at our shop and because of some construction types you cannot cold set the drop outs to widen them.

With your dropout the barrel adjuster creates a point of concern as drilling and tapping a hole in the casting weakens it which is not a problem during normal operation as it is not a load bearing area and the lower part of the dropout and hangar also bears very little load and serves to guide the axle into place and support the derailleur. It is when you apply force to the lower part of the casting to straighten it that force will also be transmitted through the dropout and if there is a potential for breaking it will most likely be at the barrel adjuster.

Peloton44, Safest route is to maybe use a file on the lower lip of the dropout rather than trying to bend it back into shape for axle clearance.

Brad

Even in person there is no way ahead of time, to tell you the results of bending it back, but there's no reason not to try. The preferred means would be to have a frame builder do the work if they are willing to do so. If the repair does not seem to have integrity then the same person can replace it. Of course that means a problem with your paint job.

I have bent dropouts back in line that were opened up, rather than closed, with success, and the amount of deflection is not great. Hard to recall, but I believe I handled ones like yours as well. I used a long box end wrench over the end to open it up, but that's not a recommendation! Of course the dropout and hanger alignment should be checked afterward.

The bend is very slight, and not nearly enough to have cracked the area near the screw the way it is. So step one is to verify if it actually is a crack or just something in the paint. The only way to do that is to carefully sand or file away the paint until the crack either disappears or you can see it in the steel.

If the steel is cracked, I suspect that the dropout had been bent and straightened before, so things are going to be a bit dicey if you try to simply bend it back.

OTOH, if it isn't cracked, it should bend back easily and without cracking with some gentle levering at the front. You'll be surprised at how easily it bends back.

Often, I'll consider heating the steel to reduce the chances of cracking, but I weight that against the issue of paint damage. If it isn't now cracked, and this is the first time, I'd just bend it cold.

Now if it is cracked, you have a decision. You can take it up with the seller and try to return it or get some kind of partial refund. If you decide to keep it, a cracked dropout should only be repaired by someone who knows what he's doing. I'd remove the screw, warm and straighten it, then possibly repair the crack with some braze, and finish by retapping. This won't be cheap, figure $50-$100 from a framebuilder (who brazes, not someone who only Tigs) or a shop that does frame repairs..

In summery, take the time to know where you are, then consider your options.

Thanks to all who responded! I will give it a go myself and report back. If it breaks I guess I will have to search out an expert to do the repair mentioned above.

Yes, these are repaired all the time. It was fairly common for the RD to overshift into the spokes breaking the dropout (that's why most frames now replaceable hangers). A good repair will preserve the micro adjust, a more crude one won't so if it breaks, you can PM me & I'll give you some names of shops that still know how to fix these right.

I agree with the concern about the crack. If it is cracked, widening the slot will likely worsen it. The best way to deal with this is to widen the slot carefully, sand or blast the chrome off the dropout, and fill the adjuster hole and crack with brass. You lose the adjuster on that side, but that's preferable to a broken dropout.

I agree with working something out with the seller. Either s/he neglected to inform you of a pre-existing problem or neglected to pack properly, as there is no way that one should not anticipate the need to protect that section of frame when shipping. Frankly, I would not touch it until you have some compensation for the damage.

Now that I think of it I would advise you to have the dropout, rear triangle and hanger alignment professionally checked now. Checking all three can be done in about 15 minutes and can be done by any mechanic who has the right tools and knowledge. Of course you will be into more money if things need to be corrected. How you handle issues beyond the original one you posted depends on how the seller represented the frame.

If you give it a go yourself be very careful to put incrementally more bending pressure on it until it gives a little and then recheck. You don't want to get into the position of bending it back in. A longer lever used carefully is much, much safer than a shorter one.

p.s. One thing confuses me. It seems very odd if this was a whole bicycle rather than just a frame that the rear wheel not mounted for shipment.

FBinNy is correct. The small amount of bending in that dropout would not cause a crack in a previously-sound dropout. If there is a crack in the dropout it was probably due to some previous mishap. That dropout appears to be chromed and then painted over. Chrome can crack pretty easily when the metal beneath it is bent, as the chrome is quite brittle. A nice gentle way to open the dropout back up again is with a large cold chisel. Insert the tapered end of the chisel into the "mouth" of the dropout. Tap gently. The taper will slowly wedge it open. Stop tapping when the opening is back to where it should be. Do be carefull to use a large enough cold chisel that the cutting end never touches the steel of the dropout: You are using the chisel as a wedge, not as a chisel.
Brent

OK - so I was able to re-space the dropout using a cold chisel as a wedge. It took many taps but it worked! Can I assume that since the re-spacing worked, that it is not cracked?

Also, the rear derailleur rubs against the spokes when in first gear. How can I tell if the dropout is bent? I noticed that the rear wheel is not centred when the axle rests against the ends of both drops (I removed the adjustment screws because they were damaged in transit). Does this indicate a bent frame? Do I need to use adjustment screws or can the axle simply rest against the end of the drops? This would not seem ideal since it results in a non-centred wheel. Conversely, is it common to have adjustment screws that are not evenly set in order to create a centred wheel? I rebuilt my wife's 1980's Bianchi a while back and I noticed that the adjustment screws are not evenly set but the wheel is centred. Is this ok? Thanks all!

If the wheel is centred when the screws aren't even, that means the frame isn't right and/or the wheel's dish is off, and/or the axle is bent.

If it's a freehub, it's not likely to be the axle, but check it by loosening the QR and turning the axle in the frame. If this doesn't make the wheel doesn't wobble around, you can flip the wheel to check the dish. If the rim sits in the same spot each way, whether that's centred or not, the wheel is properly dished.

If the wheel is properly dished and has a straight axle (or you can twirl a bent one for the average), only then can it serve to indicate the straightness of your frame.

I think I'd be hopping mad at that seller, BTW...

As I noted above "Of course the dropout and hanger alignment should be checked afterward." and "...I would advise you to have the dropout, rear triangle and hanger alignment professionally checked now." You need to take the bike to a shop in order to have the frame aligned. Yes, one can use the "string method" to check rear triangle, and cobble together a system to check the hanger, but if you can't determine why the derailleur is rubbing the spokes you need to take it to a shop. It's not possible to know if the frame is or is not aligned from the position of the adjustment screws. Could be the dropouts were not pefectly even forward-back (not a big deal) could be the triangle or dropouts are off, could be the wheel is not dished properly.

I noticed that you not have not addressed about the issues we have brought up about the purchase of the bike vs it's condition. How the condition of the bike was presented by the seller, how it was prepared for shipment and the condition when it arrived are all pivotal in regard to whether you should do ANYTHING right now.

You could potentially get a refund or compensated for repairs, but only if you document what is wrong and the costs to fix it before anything is done. The dropout picture obviously shows a problem, but only a shop can properly verify in writing othe problems. If you choose not to address issues with the seller that is of course your choice, but be aware you could be looking at some significant expense to get everything in line, and there may be other problems that you have yet to discover.

In bikes of that era, with micro adjust horizontal dropouts, less attention was given to perfect dropout fixturing during brazing than is with modern dropouts. After all the builder knew it had the micro adjust screws. So perfect alignment based on fully back in the dropout isn't necessarily an indicator of anything, but it should be fairly close.

The dropout is designed to use with the screws, and needs to have them to work as intended. The reality is that only one side needs to be adjustable, and if you're willing to put up with a bit of inconvenience you can use 3mm screws inserted through the slot end and short enough not to poke through. Adjust trial and error until they're dialed in and the wheel is straight, then you'll never touch them again. If there are problems with the thread on one side, it's OK because only one needs to be adjustable. Devise a stop for the stripped side, and adjust from the opposite.

To give you some perspective, these screws were in use for a few decades. All of us who rode in that era had them, and 90% of us had bent ones because of normal (rough) handling. This could be a pain, and many people stripped the threads trying to remove a damaged screw. One day I decided that since I never moved them anyway, I might as well cut them off flush at the back of the dropout. Later on many others followed suit, and no one ever regretted doing so.

Your RD touching the wheel in low gear, is most likely because of a bent hanger. Shift to a gear combination where the cage is vertical, now stand behind the bike and eyeball if the cage is straight up and down. I expect that you'll find the bottom in inboard compared to the top. Hanger aligning is an everyday job in bike shops, requiring a $50.00 tool. When you bring it in be sure to explain about the (possibly) cracked dropout, because it'll be easy for the shop to finish it off if he's unaware. To prevent damage to the dropout the hanger should only be straightened with a solid axle wheel in place to stabilize the dropout.

So that should get it so you can ride, but as others pointed out there may (or may not) be other alignment issues. I'd ride it and see how it handles before spending more to check. If it handles OK that's all that counts, but if you have tracking issues, or it's hard to ride no hands, you'll want it checked by someone who knows what he's doing. Most shops really don't, so ask around to find the right guy.

Most likely, it means the chainstays aren't exactly the same length.

The adjusters are there for convenience, to facilitate centering the wheel after it has been removed to e.g. fix a flat. But the threaded holes that hold the adjusters represent a weak spot on the dropout, and are a common place for failure. After a dropout has been bent, and re-bent, the steel has been work-hardened in the area of the bend, which represents another stress riser. That's why I like to completely fill the holes with brass if there's any indication that a crack has started.

I have been in contact with the seller regarding my problems. He says he always ships his bikes the same way and has not had any problems. However, we both agree that rather than waiting for USPS or Canada Post to decide whose fault it is, that he will compensate me a reasonable amount for my troubles. So I am looking for some advise. Worst case scenario, the frame is bent and the dropout is cracked and needs to be repaired. Since my local bike shops are not able to do this work, and I won't be able to get to the city for some time, does anybody have any ideas about how much this type of work might cost? Thanks.

Good luck, if you bought on ebay, you should have already filed a claim. In my experience, carriers will blame the packaging on the damage, and they are probably right. Unless the seller supported that dropout, he packed it wrong IMHO. The fact he has gotten lucky in the past does not matter. And any carrier is going to want to inspect the box and all packaging materials.

I got a similar damaged dropout on an ebay bike, poorly packed (nothing to protect the dropouts).

New frames come packaged with a simple but effective plastic brace, that snaps right in. I get them from the local LBS and use them on my shipments. Even with that brace in place, the RD hanger is exposed, and protected as well.

I would either get it to a qualified shop right away, or return it. Until they inspect it and start the repair, it will be hard to guess the full extent of the damage. Looks minor to me, but I am just looking at a small pic of one drop out. Call your preferred shop and ask them for a quote.

Not having previous problems is not the point, and neither is whose fault it is. The point is that it is not your fault, so waiting for an insurance claim should not be in the cards at all. You received something that was not what you purchased, so you are due compensation. Again, it's crazy to ship a bike and not protect the most vulnerable area, and most people have the sense to ship a bike with the rear wheel mounted anyway.

I would think it a pretty safe bet that the dropout is not cracked. That leaves the hanger, dropout alignment, and rear triangle. If indeed none of the local shops have dropout and hanger alignment gauges/tools then you are in a hard position. I would see 2 choices.

1. Return the frame for a full refund. I know the listing says no returns but the damage takes this into "Item not as described" which does allow for that option. This one depends on whether you had your heart set on a 1985 Schwinn Peleton. There are always more bikes out there.

2. Obtain a written agreement from the seller that he will pay a given amount of costs to repair any damage to the rear area. How much it will cost can vary greatly, both dependent on the work required and particular shop rates. But if you want a figure I'll give it a shot. With wheels already off checking/aligning dropouts should be not much more than about $10, as it's a couple minute job. Aligning the hanger takes a bit more time and effort, more like $15-20. Aligning a rear triangle (doubtful that any shipping damage would have done that) would be more like $30-40 additional. I would ask for something as well for the time you took to research and perform the fix for the crushed dropout opening.

You can't go too high or the seller may just offer you a refund and ask that you return the bike, with you typicall paying return shipping. eBay would likely accept that and you will have no choice. I don't know what you paid for the bike but I'm thinking it may be this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Schwinn...item2a1eb5ff3a

Even if it's not, Let's say you paid $525 with shipping. Given the costs I mentioned above and the time/trouble to go to the city shops, plus the need to reinstall and adjust wheels, brakes, rear derailleur. I would say $60 - $90 might be reasonable. But it depends on the two of you agreeing. You are protected by eBay Buyer Protection if the seller does not work with you.

That frame was most likely packed in a box without dropout-savers and adequate padding. The dropout-savers keep the spacing between the dropouts constant in case the box is impacted from the side. There is also typically a cardboard box underneath the rear-dropouts and under the BB-shell. In this case, it appears the dropout was resting against the bottom of the box. Then that box was tossed off the truck as typically the practice. Upon landing, the weight of the frame+box+padding was loaded on the bottom part of the derailleur-hanger and bent up the dropout slot.

The repair is not a problem if alignment is verified. All of the rider's weight goes upward into the top part of the dropout. The only thing the bottom half of the dropout holds is the rear-derailleur and part of the rear wheel's weight when getting air.

Hi all - it seems that all has ended well. I've been riding my bike and loving it! The seller gave me a partial refund and I am happy with the way he handled the problems. I had my RD hanger straightened at my LBS and they were able to reconnect the original chain. Thanks for all your help on this. Now it's on to the endless quest to upgrade!