stryper

So I was hit by a car last week and am now in a position to build a new front wheel since mine was ruined. It was a 36h rim laced to a 36h hub. Seeing as how I'm only 150lbs and don't thrash my bike around, I'd like to drop the spoke count.
I read here on Sheldon Browns site about lacing a 28h rim to a 36h hub (since my hub is fine I'll reuse it) and of all the places I looked it had the most understandable pattern. I haven't had a math class in quite a few years and am hoping somebody can double check my math. I used the formula Sheldon provided near the end of the article to calculate the spoke lengths.


I am open to suggestions on a working and symmetrical lacing pattern for a 24h front wheel, but there was a lot of difficult to understand information on that, something about no 24h pattern will put equal tensions on a 36h hubs flanges. I would think 20h would be pushing it, but again I'm open to suggestions if a good 20h pattern is around, and I think I could work the 28h design onto my rear wheel instead if the money I get is enough for the additional spokes.

I do not want people telling me about how stupid an idea this is, how it's bad to replace hubs into a different pattern than they have been laced, or about how leaving empty holes on the hub will create weak spots or spots of high tension on the flanges. I got all that and am doing it anyways. I just want some help/advice doing it.

mrrabbit 

So let me get this straight...

You have all the information in the world you need, plus pros and cons...all you have to do is hit the "compute" button and get with building the wheel...

And at the same time you want to tell us what to say to you and what not to say to you...

That's like telling someone to help you - but you have to help them THEIR way.

One word: arrogance

=8-)

FBinNY 

My advice is fairly simple, but based on sort of a catch-22. Inferring from your post, I'll venture that you lack the experience (or maybe just the confidence) to tackle a tricky lace pattern, or analyze the implications.

So my advice is to build a straight 36h wheel. Since you're not heavy, you can reduce the amount of spoke by using lighter spokes rather than fewer spokes. You'll end up with an easier to build, lighter wheel which will serve you better over the long haul.

One advantage of 36h is that there's very short spans between spokes at the rim. That allows for lighter rims, and provides form precise aligning, and correcting of variations in the rim. If you drop to 28h, the spans increase, so you'll need a stiffer (heavier) rim, and will some degree of precise control of rim alignment.

Or if you really want 28H, consider the old KISS approach and spring for a 28h hub.

stryper

Technically we all have all the information in the world by having internet access, doesn't mean we all know how to sort through and interpret it. And there is no compute button for this. No spoke length calculators take into consideration using abstract patterns or different holed hubs/rims.

I layed out that I already know the pros and cons of doing it this way and don't need anyone trying to tell me about them, to stop some of the unneeded banter that often happens on bike forums. But I clearly said I was very open to other ideas if somebody had better lacing patterns or ones that used a few less spokes even. Specifically I needed the math help, making sure I plugged the correct numbers in correctly.

The Wheel I'm replacing is a 3 leading 3 trailing that I built myself 2 years ago. I'm not worried about being able to lace the wheel, it's quite easy. It is true I don't understand all the technical aspects that go into designing a lacing pattern or making sure forces are equal on both sides of the hub and rim, which is why I'm using a lacing pattern from a site I trust.

I don't want another 36h wheel, I don't need it. I could go out and buy a 16 spoke front wheel and likely not need to true it more than twice a year because like I said, I take good care of my things and I'm not heavy. Now I don't want to be that extreme, but a nice middle ground would be great.

As far as replacing the hub, it's a dura ace hub which for one doesn't come in anything but 36h and 32h, and two it's expensive while inversely my budget is small. And I love my loose ball bearings in it. I get far more pleasure/satisfaction from being able to take them apart and clean those than i would just replacing a cartridge bearing, so selling the hub via craigslist or something and buying a new cheaper hub would with correct drillings would be tragic.

FBinNY 

So, I don't know why you're posting. What do you expect as an answer?

You've already decided what you want to do. You're already convinced it's the best alternative. You say you're receptive to alternatives and I suggested one - using lighter spokes vs. fewer spokes, but you've apparently already ruled that out .

So if all you want is validation of your plans, you don't need us. If it's simply a check of the math, I for one, don't want to bother. For the math, buy a high school kid a beer (I know it's illegal, that's why you get so much for so little).

You have what you need or want to build the wheel of your choice. Ride it in good health and stay away for cars.

stryper

I'm already buying lighter spokes. The wheel had straight non-butted cheapy spokes before. I'm getting sapim laser double butted spokes, you can't get much lighter than that without getting cx-rays, which are 3x the cost so no thanks.

And if you don't want to help check the math, that's cool but there are lots of people on forums who are there to help others, not just post their opinions and act like a ****** while telling "thin skinned people" to get out the way.

FBinNY 

As I said, you obviously neither need or want my help, so I repeat my best wishes for success.

For the record, You came here for help, & I tried sincerely to provide some. You chose to reject it, which is OK. But You're the only one with any hope of benefit from our short relationship, so if you don't like the answers, it might make sense to say thank you, or even thanks but no thanks, or at least nothing.

You can rest assured that if you post again, I won't waste time trying to help.

stryper

Your advice was to use lighter spokes, to which I replied I plan to buy some of the lightest spokes available that don't cost an arm and a leg. I have headed your advice on that front.
Your second piece of advice was to buy a new hub, which I explained was well outside the budget.

FBinNY 

You don't get it.

I'm neither happy nor unhappy that you're taking my advice (if that's what's happening) about the spokes, nor do you owe me an explanation for not taking my advice. I'm not invested in your wheel either way. I offered advice that I thought would help, but it's a free country, and there's no obligation to accept it.

OTOH, if you don't like the advice, there's no reason to get huffy about it. Good luck with the wheel, ride it in good health, but don't expect me to respond to your future posts.

reddog3

You want to "lose" eight spokes and it's turned into this? You have all the math- use the info. If your math didn't work out and the first assembly wasn't quite right, buy some more spokes and try again. That's how most of the builders around here learned. You want free advice? Play nice.

I think I'm thinking the same as the other respondents- why? (though I won't speak for them) You already know the spoke length for 36 spoke (and pattern) on that hub and rim. Just rebuild it. If you want 28- buy the appropriate huib as well. If you goal is to lose weight- 8 spokes at 4 grams each ain't dog doodoo. And... Dura Ace hubs ain't that light compared to some of the others. You ain't gaining squat.