i tend to replace most any cup-and-cone, except something like a vintage campagnolo one, with UN55 or whatever shimano sealed BBs and once installed, I never see them again. a well setup and properly greased ball and cone BB will last many years between overhalls anyways, so yeah, those specialty cup removal tools would get very little use. my park tool shimano BB remover, OTOH, has easily paid for itself. I got the one that fits over octolink BBs, as thats what I put on my sons vintage trek to go with the ultegra crankset.

Well, the crank puller and lock ring wrench are on their way, and if the shipping info is to be believed, I should have them sometime next week. Once I get things opened up, I may need to ask for some additional guidance (depending on the state of things after 25+ years).

My hope is that things will be fairly straight forward; my experience has been that this is rarely the case.

A little penetrating oil applied now can really help later.

The crank puller arrived early (a Festivus Miracle!)

Crank arms came off with no problems, revealing more little nooks to be cleaned.

Just turning the spindle with my fingers (no cranks), it feels even rougher than before.

Once I get the lock ring off, I will be able to see what's going on in there (the anticipation is killing me).

It's not surprising that it's rough. You don't feel it on the cranks. When I did my Zeus BB I only noticed it when I took the crank arms off as well. But the good news was that when I reassembled it it came out smooth as butter. I didn't replace the ball bearings either. This was on a crank from 1981 that hadn't been serviced in 28 years! I rode that bike almost through that entire time, but was good to it.

when you get the lock ring off, the adjustable cup should unscrew, and once thats off, then all the balls fall out, and the axle comes out. more balls on the other side of the axle, and the two sides might be different size balls, count them and make notes. at this point, you should be able to clean everything, and examine the cones and cups. the balls generally leave a shiny ring in the cones and cups, thats OK, but if that shiny ring has dents in it, the whole thing is toast.... oh, on a old school BB axle, the cones are part of the axle, not separate like they are with a wheel.

if it all cleans up well, regreasing and reassemblying and readjusting it just right, and it may well be quite servicable. if the races are dented, fergitaboutit, and measure the length of the axle to the nearest mm, and get yourself a Shimano UN55 of the right length. to be save, bring the clean pieces of your old one to the bike shop so they can verify that the threads are 'british 68mm" (if your frame has french threads or something, ugh, you're in for a world of hurt).

While I wait for the lock ring wrench to arrive (the shipping info says it is waiting at my local post office), I have a further question.

I have read differing opinions on what to do regarding the fixed cup. Assuming that I can get the adjustable cup out, and all that is needed is a good cleaning/regreasing, should I not remove the fixed cup and just clean/regrease it in place?

What are the potential downsides to removing the fixed cup, assuming that I can successfully remove it and replace it?

if you can get it out without damage, no downsides. as has been pointed out several times, old fixed cups are often REALLY hard to remove.

if it turns out the cups and/or axle bearing surfaces are damaged, you'll need to remove it anyways to install a cartridge BB in its place.

Well, the lock wrench arrived, and I managed to open things up. As expected, it was pretty gunky and gritty. Once I cleaned everything up, it looks like I just need to re-grease and re-assemble.

I could not manage to get the fixed cup removed (I applied some penetrating oil overnight, and tried using a vise, as wel las the Sheldon Brown bolt/nut DIY tool). Since the fixed cup looks fine, I am planning on leaving well enough alone.

First try this:

With your bike set firmly on the floor, hold the crank arms vertically and try to push the upper one in toward the seat tube. Can you feel any movement at all?

If you can and if it was my bike, I'd take it to a shop, have them remove the old bottom bracket and install a new cartridge bottom bracket. I'd let a shop do the work because, on a 25 year old bike, the term "fixed cup" is probably accurate and, if you replace the BB with a cartridge BB, you'll never again need cup and cone BB tools.

Cool! Suggest you pack it with LOTS of grease as there are usually no seals in those older BBs. The extra grease will help keep water out. Suggest you grease the seatpost for the same reason.

The entire contents of the bottom bracket were as depicted by Pierce in a previous post. There are the two sets of bearings (in cages), the spindle, and the plastic accordian thing (I do not know the proper term for it). Quite simple.

The surfaces of the cups, bearings, and spindle (once cleaned) appear smooth and undamaged.

I would buy a new set of the bearings since you went to the effort of opening up and cleaning the thing. They're cheap.

yeah, re lotsa grease. I tend to cover the bearings, and rub it in with my (gloved) fingers, then just about FILL the cup with grease and press the bearings down into this. I'll coat the whole axle with a millimeter or so thick layer, then assemble it, after its assembled, and adjusted, I'll wipe off any excess that oozed out.

I generally use green 'marine' waterproof ball bearing grease, that I buy at a auto store (use the same stuff on boat trailer axles). I can't tell that apart from the $$$$ phil wood grease, or the park lube stuff.

I second most of the other information here. One thing to be aware of is that there are many bike shops and/or co-ops that have open shop time where you can go into their shops and use repair stands and the proper tools for repairing your bike. Most charge a nominal fee for this, like $5/hour. There are many bike repairs that are not that hard to do if you have the right tools but sometimes those tools can be expensive. For example, replacing a headset is not that hard but the tools to do it right are a little expensive.

Probably easiest to just take it to a LBS that you have good experience with and ask them to do the overhaul and ask them to please replace the bearings with new loose bearings at the same time. If the store allows such, you might ask if you can observe the overall...

Agree with other posters that, like a great majority of bikes, there is a good chance that the bottom end has never seen fresh grease... so just get it done for your own peace of mind and don't put it off till later.

Acetone and ATF mix, half and half, is also a very good penetrating fluid, supposedly better than Kroil.

think of the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself.
libraries have books on bike repair. if yours doesn't it can be borrowed through interlibrary loan.
check ebay for used books.

and remember- righty isn't always tighty, and lefty isn't always loosey.

there's an active thread here about exactly that. it worked with older Dex III ATF, it doesn't work with more modern synthetic formulas, they don't mix well. and the author of the original study (circa 2007) that tested the various compounds later admitted he'd actually used 1,1,1 TCE, which is considered highly toxic and a strong greenhouse gas and is tightly regulated, so he substituted Acetone for his article (but hadn't actually tested it). I'll stick with Kroil.

I ended up leaving the fixed cup in place.

After cleaning everything, I re-greased and re-assembled. Cleaned up the cranks, and put them back in place. It spins quite smoothly (and quietly) now.

I figure than the placebo effect from knowing that I have overhauled the bottom bracket will be worth at least another 1-2 MPH on the flats.

Thank you for all of the advice. I am now on to cleaning up the front and rear deraileurs (but I will save that for another thread).

if you ever want to remove that fixed cup, i recommend the Sheldon Brown DIY fixed cup removal tool. it has worked well on all my fixed cups. it can be put together with stuff from your local Ace Hardware store. google "sheldon brown fixed cup diy".

it's clever and fun to use.

oh, btw, if you take the fixed cup out, you may want to replace it with a 21st century cartridge BB. of course you'll have to buy another old bike with a fixed cup in order to use it more than once if you do...

I did attempt the Sheldon Browne DIY tool approach. However, since the fixed cup looked fine after cleaning, I really didn't press the issue. I was concerned with applying too much force, and screwing something up in the process.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"