I currently have a 25 year old Shimano Sante headset (ultegra level-ish) on my bike, but it loosens very quickly no matter what I try. There is a grooved, keyed washer that fits and locks onto the grooved adjustable race. Then a standard (replaced) locknut on top. I've tried tightening the locknut against the race; tried just tightening the locknut (which makes the race turn slightly); but the thing always loosens, dragging the key of the keyed washer into the fork threads, mashing them slightly. My primary fear is of damaging the fork threads more. I've most recently tried adding another washer, but the race still turns slightly when tightening the locknut- indicating thread gouging and inadequate function.

My next plan is to install a Tange headset I bought, which I hope will completely fix the problem- or it is the fork threads causing issue. However the Tange is loose ball bearing, unsealed, and I live in Vancouver, known for it's rain and I fear too much grit and water may get into the bottom. Could or I put a seal in, or do they have to be very tight? Should I get a NOS Shimano headset, maybe? Advise me, please!

You need two wrenches to properly adjust your headset. Should be a 32mm headset wrench for the adjustable cup...a headset wrench is thinner than a normal wrench so that it will fit on the wrench flats of the adjustable cup without interfering with what is above it. Then you need a wrench that will fit your locknut.

Adjust the preload and then use the headset wrench to hold the adjustable cup in position and tighten the locknut against it.

Santé headsets should have been just labyrinthine sealed with balls in cages. Nothing too special.

Increased amount of maintenance for bicycle bearing systems is just a fact of life if one is doing a lot of wet conditions riding.

ymmv.
-j

This is what I meant by I'd be tightening it against itself. It still loosens off after doing this, to the point where I could unscrew it by hand, with ease. Another problem is that the wrench 'slots', for lack of a better word, on the adjustable cup are very narrow when the washer is pressed down. Like, cone wrench narrow. And the only wrench I could find in a 32 and narrow enough was still a very tight squeeze- probably preventing adequate tightening.

So the lack of seal is not too big of a deal?

Have you tried cleaning the threads and applying some blue loctite? Seems like the perfect application for it.

Your reply does not indicate whether or not you are using two spanners/wrenches or you are just tightening the locknut down and hoping for the best that it tightens properly.

To clarify: you need a headset wrench which is a thin wrench similar to a cone wrench but for the larger size of the wrench flats on the headset. You need to use two wrenches in opposition to lock the locknut and adjustable cup together.


While it may be possible on some threaded headsets/forks to get away with using only one wrench/spanner it is only adequate if the adjustment holds. In your case the adjustment is not holding, so if you are only using one wrench/spanner then you should obtain the appropriate headset wrench for the adjustable cup and another appropriate wrench for the locknut and use them together to lock that baby down.

-j

Add a second washer. If the washer setup is correct you only need 1 wrench My guess is that the op nut is tightening against the top of the fork versus wedging tight against the washers and adjusting cup.

Loctite is not the proper solution.

The lockwasher is there to discourage loosening, rather than to allow or encourage tightening with one wrench. The flats on the adjustable part are there for a reason - it allows you to lock the two parts against the washer as well as against the fork threads. The tab on the washer is merely extra insurance against loosening more than a certain amount.

However, it is true that the OP needs to make sure that there is space between the top of the fork column and the locknut when things are tightened down. Adding another washer (preferably tabbed) would both insure that there is space and allow better access with a wrench as well as proper tightening. NO LOCKTITE.

+1 Forget locktite. +1 Two cone wrenches are a must. +1 if it is bottoming out too early, add a spacer.

I added a 1mm spacer yesterday just for this reason.

agree with wrk101 on this. also don't ride the bike if the headset is loose; you will eventually damage the frame.

I don't think I used 2 wrenches even when I had 2 wrenches...

That's fine for you, but when I give advice it's based on the best practice, not what may work. As noted with the OP's experience the tab on the washer will often either tear out or rotate into the fork column threads when one uses only one wrench. So not only are the two pieces not locked together as tightly but they can loosen further before meeting any resistance. Using two wrenches is simply the best way to adjust the headset.

I find it not only odd but illogical that one would think that using one wrench acceptable practice on a headset, where the locknut has no external clamping force to keep it in place, but yet would not think of adjusting a hub without using a cone wrench, even though the hub bearing adjustment is less likely to change, due to both locknuts being clamped against the dropouts.

Whatever....I know what I'm doing. Worked 12 years in a shop....

Its a headset, not the space shuttle.

Well, that's a convincing argument if I ever heard one. People can make their own decision, but in over 20 years of working on bikes, supervising repair operations and training mechanics I never heard someone advocate adjusting a headset that way.

Are the bearings caged? Do you have the top set of balls facing up or down?

Just to be clear: I had tried using two wrenches. And really, I mean really cranking down on it. But it still loosens.

A problem is that the flats on the adjustable race are about 2mm wide when the washer is in place, and I can't find a 2mm thick (/thin?), 32mm wide, wrench anywhere. The one I used too hold the race in position while I tighten the top is then quite hard to remove one I've tightened the locknut- leading me to believe I haven't tightening them together enough, because the wrenches width is preventing it.

I have recently purchased a very standard Tange Levin headset which will allow two wrench use if required. However there is no seal, which worries me because I don't know much about the empirical effects of seal vs. seal-less.

As for this argument between one and two wrenches. It's completely a matter of what the individual headset requires. If the race moves when tightening the locknut with only one- you need a second to brace that race. If it stays absolutely still- you only need the one. From the grandaddy:

This is almost certainly the cause of the problem you are encountering. You really need the correct tool for the job. Your other option would be to replace the headset with one of the designs made for tightening and adjustment without the need of wrenchs-Rinko.

You need two of the following wrenches for your current headset; https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Head...headset+wrench

Yes, I should have been more specific in my recommendation of adding a spacer, What should be added is as narrow a spacer as possible, so that it does not protrude beyond the wrench flats.

However, you don't need two headset wrenches unless you have the rare type of headset that has a round locknut with narrow flats. All others can be adjusted with any wrench that fits, including an adjustable wrench.

It's foolish to use only one wrench if the right one is available, especially if you have to watch for "slight movement" and then reach for the other wrench anyway if you see it move - and start over. Sheldon was wise but not infallible.

If I am reading the OP's statement correctly, the fact that the wrench is wide enough to prevent the other nut from tightening properly is the problem. I think the bolded text you are writing is referring to the diameter of the spacer and not its thickness which I believe needs to be thick enough so that the wrenches are not preventing the nuts from being properly tightened. Of course the fork will need to be long enough to allow such a spacer to be added while still allowing enough threads for the lock nut to engage sufficiently.

Either way, while the OP may be able to 'make do' with what he has, the right tools for the job are always preferable.

I've tried everything suggested- washers, two wrenches, locktite- and the problem persists. (I jest- I haven't used locktite.)

I think PianoFuji has identified the cause of the issue- and I will be installing a new, rather beautiful headset. However it's not sealed. Let us commence the discussion of sealed and non-sealed! Please!

I mentioned the diameter of the spacer because in some instances I have seen it interfere if too large a diameter, but in general there should not be a problem, and yes, there needs to be sufficient threads left for an extra spacer to be used.

Of course the right tools for the job are preferable - but many people have only one headset wrench, and functionally there is no difference when it comes to the locknut.

It seems strange to have the tools to replace a headset, but not the ones to properly adjust same - no.

It might make sense to have a shop do the adjustment - to make sure there is enough load between the nuts (right tools, top nut not bottoming out on the top of the fork, etc.). A shop could also check to make sure the cups fit properly and that an ovalized headtube isn't contributing to the problem.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about an unsealed headset. Fill it full of grease and service it every six months. NBD

Trust me, I have searched the Vancouver area for a thin 32mm wrench that fill fit my specific cup- there being a very close clearance. I don't have the tools, I have access to them.

Thanks, mind put to rest.

Did some searching for the Shimano Sante headset and found a couple of photos that I found intriguing. From the photos there doesn't appear to be any flats for a wrench at all. If that is the case, much of the advice given hear may be mistaken. Did these headsets require a special tool? If so, it might be cheaper to simply replace the headset (~$30) with a more traditional style.





https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...deb88&Enum=111

No, it works as usual- the band with the Sante logo and the pearl coloured dome above it slide off and give access to flats, so usual wrenches fit.

I am planning on replacing it with a traditional, very basic, headset later today: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X0S5r0lVXD...oy_headset.jpg