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Legnano value

Old 03-12-24, 10:51 AM
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Nowhere does it say Gran Premo
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Old 03-12-24, 10:52 AM
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Serial # is32564
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Old 03-12-24, 11:50 AM
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A couple of members have questioned my opinion regarding the top of the line quality of the OP's Legnano. I agree with them. I did not look carefully enough, noting quickly the seat stay tops. Anyway, sorry for the error and any confusion I might have created.
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Old 03-12-24, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by robertj298
Nowhere does it say Gran Premo
...yes, that is the model name for this bicycle.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:10 AM
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-----

one thing found of interest is the absence of Gaslos

have never known a specific year for their discontinuance by Bozzi

it does seem to be right around this time

has anyone noticed a specific year for their departure?

of course it is always possible they were yet in use at this point but this machine did not receive them because stock had run out necessitating a substitution...


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Old 03-13-24, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
Actually the Universal 61's are what would be expected during the early 70's. Even Cinelli spec'd them on their Super Corsa. Campy brakes were so crazy expensive it took a few years before they were common on top of the line machines.
And even then, I was told by someone in the know, that a lot of teams replaced the Campy with Modolo because they were more reliable.
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Old 03-13-24, 08:43 AM
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My comment about Uni 61s being odd is because I thought they would be 68s. Iíve been known to be wrong in the pastÖ
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Old 03-13-24, 10:13 AM
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So is this the top model Legnano from 1972? It is in incredible shape for sitting around most of those years.
On a stand it pedals smooth and gears and brakes work. Still not worth that much?
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Old 03-13-24, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by robertj298
So is this the top model Legnano from 1972? It is in incredible shape for sitting around most of those years.
On a stand it pedals smooth and gears and brakes work. Still not worth that much?
...depends on who you are, whether it fits, and if you are one of the collector people. Thus the wide divergence of estimated values in this thread. If you want one, this one fits exactly, and you're willing and able to do the disassembly and reconstruction, it's an excellent project bike. There just seems to be a dearth of people looking for this sort of thing as a project any more. There are still some, but connecting with them is difficult to do economically. E-bay has the widest audience, thus would get the highest sale price. But the fees and shipping make it an expensive way to buy a project.

A lot of the differences in valuation you see in the thread are based on how it gets sold, and the marketing of it.

Once you pencil out the costs in time and materials to restore it as a rider, you'll have a better understanding of how hard it would be to resell without losing money. If you're planning on keeping and riding it forever, that's not really a factor. But people pay too much money for project bikes all the time. Likewise, people sometimes regret not buying something like this, that they remember as something they should have gone ahead and done.

You're just trying to figure out the best strategy so both your friend and you feel like you got a fair deal. Yes, it's the top of the line for whatever year it was made, assuming that sticker is original. ( I see no reason to think it's not.) This might very well be a high point for you in the hobby. But try to approach it realistically.

Don't be fooled by the fact that it pedals smooth on a stand, or the braking. The bearing grease will have dried out, as have the rubber brake blocks.
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Old 03-13-24, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
And even then, I was told by someone in the know, that a lot of teams replaced the Campy with Modolo because they were more reliable.
That seemed vaguely off for the time period being discussed (early '70's), so I did a search and found this:

"The success of Modolo's braking systems began in 1976 when Domenico Modolo joined his father's well-established company."

So maybe some teams replaced Campy brakes with Modolo by the late '70's or early 80's, after they'd established themselves in the market.

Also, not sure what "reliable" means in this context. Having sold and installed a number of Modolo brake sets back then, they never seemed at quite Campy's level of quality or dependability. Not a hit against them, back when there were only two categories of quality: Campagnolo and everything else.

If "reliability" means "ability to stop the bike quickly without the need of a vice-like grip on the lever," agreed: Modolo brakes win there.

Always loved the look of the black Modolo brakes with the white lettering. Forget the model name. Speedy? (Strange choice for the name of a brake model, it occurs to me for the first time.)
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Old 03-13-24, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...depends on who you are, whether it fits, and if you are one of the collector people. Thus the wide divergence of estimated values in this thread. If you want one, this one fits exactly, and you're willing and able to do the disassembly and reconstruction, it's an excellent project bike. There just seems to be a dearth of people looking for this sort of thing as a project any more. There are still some, but connecting with them is difficult to do economically. E-bay has the widest audience, thus would get the highest sale price. But the fees and shipping make it an expensive way to buy a project.

A lot of the differences in valuation you see in the thread are based on how it gets sold, and the marketing of it.

Once you pencil out the costs in time and materials to restore it as a rider, you'll have a better understanding of how hard it would be to resell without losing money. If you're planning on keeping and riding it forever, that's not really a factor. But people pay too much money for project bikes all the time. Likewise, people sometimes regret not buying something like this, that they remember as something they should have gone ahead and done.

You're just trying to figure out the best strategy so both your friend and you feel like you got a fair deal. Yes, it's the top of the line for whatever year it was made, assuming that sticker is original. ( I see no reason to think it's not.) This might very well be a high point for you in the hobby. But try to approach it realistically.

Don't be fooled by the fact that it pedals smooth on a stand, or the braking. The bearing grease will have dried out, as have the rubber brake blocks.
But it fits give me some idea that everything works as it should. Iím in the fence about buying it. It is just about 1 cm smaller than me other bikes but it was made the year I graduated from hs. Do you know of this bike would be much different to service than the 80s Japanese bikes I have done?
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Old 03-14-24, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by robertj298
So is this the top model Legnano from 1972? It is in incredible shape for sitting around most of those years.
On a stand it pedals smooth and gears and brakes work. Still not worth that much?
Itís the top model they made.
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Old 03-14-24, 02:44 PM
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Several of the components are not so great but they are original and correct in order to keep these and a lot of nicer Italian bikes all Italian some lesser stuff was used even on top end models. So a lot lesser mid level stuff and higher stuff from Italy had some of the same components.
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Old 03-14-24, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by robertj298
But it fits give me some idea that everything works as it should. I’m in the fence about buying it. It is just about 1 cm smaller than me other bikes but it was made the year I graduated from hs. Do you know of this bike would be much different to service than the 80s Japanese bikes I have done?
...yes. I know something about them. I've refurbished two Legnano bicycles, but many more Italian bikes. They do have some important differences from 80's Japanese bikes, but nothing earth shattering. In dismantling them, it can be very difficult to remove the BB fixed cup, as both sides are RH threaded, and unless the fixed cup is installed with a very impressive torque, they will work loose while in use. It's possible you won't need to remove it, just clean in place and reinstall grease and bearings. The Campy BB parts from that era can be hard to source any more, but there are Italian threaded sealed units that will work if there's anything in there damaged.

The threading and diameter of the BB shell/cups is different, as is the width of it. I've already mentioned the tubular tires and rims. You can Google the topic, or there might be some threads here on tubulars in the C+V.

Italian paint from that era can be a little fragile, but if you are careful in your work, you should do OK. That seatpost/saddle is best adjusted with a ratcheting box end 10mm wrench. Until those came around, it was something that required a special Campy wrench.

The derailleurs, shifters, brakes, and levers are pretty much the same as what you're used to, but Universal brake lfvers are sort of famous for being made out of some sort of aluminum that will crack, if you over-torque the attachment. If the brake hoods are still usable (not dried out and cracking), it's possible you might be better off leaving them on the bar as is, and renewing the bar tape working around them. It's a judgement call best made in person.

The wheels will at least need fresh grease, but that's the same operation you're used to...might require different cone wrenches. Depending on what freewheel is on there, you might have to seek out or buy a matching freewheel removal tool. I might be missing something, but it's easy enough to do if there's no corrosive binding in the stem/ seatpost. 1cm smaller isn't much. You should be able to make that work.
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Old 03-14-24, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1
Several of the components are not so great but they are original and correct in order to keep these and a lot of nicer Italian bikes all Italian some lesser stuff was used even on top end models. So a lot lesser mid level stuff and higher stuff from Italy had some of the same components.
Which were the not-so-great components? Looks like Campy Record throughout except the brakes, plus TTT stem and bars.

Do you mean the saddle? Plenty of us were happy with a lightweight Unicanitor saddle back then. I had a Brooks Pro saddle on a first-year Raleigh Pro that I replaced with a Unica saddle that I then rode for plenty of training and racing miles.
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Old 03-14-24, 04:11 PM
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I would say stem bars headset brakes BB front hub and free wheel. The parts that most don't look at much.
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Old 03-15-24, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1
I would say stem bars headset brakes BB front hub and free wheel. The parts that most don't look at much.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Looks like triple-T bars and stem, Campy headset, Universal brakes, Campy BB, and Campy front hub. Probably a Regina freewheel. All of which were top of the line then.

What specific unarguably superior alternative non-Italian components were available in 1972 or 1973? (Campy brakes would have still been "keeping it all Italian.")
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Old 03-15-24, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...

The derailleurs, shifters, brakes, and levers are pretty much the same as what you're used to,...
...one addendum I forgot to mention. New Record rear derailleurs require a bit of overpull to shift crisply, unlike Japanese equivalents from the 80's. You can remedy this somewhat, and make them perform better in shifting, by using slick, die drawn cables and compressionless cable housing (the stuff for indexed shifters).

If you need to change out the stem for better bike fit on reach, pay attention to the diameter of the bar, and get one that fits it exactly. (26.4 shows up a lot, 26.0 sometimes).
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Old 03-15-24, 08:33 AM
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For this time frame the Weinmann brakes and Suntour VX stuff were basically better from function stand point for the average rider.
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Old 03-15-24, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1
For this time frame the Weinmann brakes and Suntour VX stuff were basically better from function stand point for the average rider.
Weinmann versus Universal mod. 61 is arguable.

You didn't mention derailleurs in your earlier post ("I would say stem bars headset brakes BB front hub and free wheel").

And how about the stem, bars, headset, BB, front hub, and freewheel? Again, as with Weinmann versus Universal mod. 61, I can't think of any non-Italian equivalents of those components that are unarguably superior.

That said, not many average riders were buying Roma Olympiade bikes in 1973. Those of us who were riding bikes at that level in that year were racers who trusted Campagnolo as the undisputed leader in component reliability. (That was true even back in 1964, when I started racing.)

Pretty sure that if someone had pointed out to me or any of my teammates that Suntour derailleurs shifted better, we wouldn't have cared.

If it weren't for Frank Berto, few would have known that Suntour derailleurs shifted better.

By the way, quoting from a search result: "Disraeligears shows a Vx first type as 1976 only."
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