repechage

In my neighborhood the raccoons just tear your shingle roofs apart. Tenacious.

mstateglfr 

Have we all?
You may thing that, but I think you think there are too many serious group riders around here.
I would imagine everyone would have to be part of a lot of pace lines for everyone to have been involved in a takedown like you describe.

Spaghetti Legs 

I refuse to fly on carbon fiber aircraft also. Steel airplanes only for me please!

Chuckk

What about little children blinded as carbon bikes spontaneously explode?

The racoon picture made the thread worth reading!

gomango

Try a Look 585.

I see them used and they are a lovely frameset in many ways.

gomango

Ours look like overweight bear cubs.

Huge and agile.

Lightning fast when addressed with the garden hose.

squirtdad

Grant Petersen does not like carbon

Phil_gretz

I think that "Numb Willies" would be a good name for a rock band.

Blue Belly

I like bicycles. I like lightweight racing bicycles. They will always be fragile. No matter what they are made of. They are made to go fast. Not for jousting.

gugie 

Man, that's really grabbing the chain and yanking hard...

SJX426 

Yup, felt moved impulsively. First time. Results of several observations and encouraged by previous posts.

When I joined back in 2008, this forum was full of very friendly, courteous, accepting, and tolerant individuals that NEVER, made obnoxious statements or outlandish ones in a forceful manner. I believe many had the approach that this was a place to learn and test our understanding and opinions against others experiences and knowledge. Many spoke, rightly so, with authority based on experience, education and knowledge and common sense. Often they, in turn, admitted lack of understanding or knowledge seeking to fill the void.

In the last few months the deterioration of the tone of communications has been very disappointing. Some significant, knowledgeable people have disengaged as a result, to the loss of the value of this forum. Assumptions are made, or implied, in statements without validation. Then a whole argument is presented based on an unfounded assumption. You know about "assume." Instead of fact based arguments, it is about "feelings" and unsubstantiated comments/perspectives without room for reasonable corrective information.

I don't' expect everyone to be knowledgeable about everything, I certainly am not! I have learned a great deal in the very short time on this forum from some very knowledgeable, experienced people that I have grown to respect as a result of their contributions, attitude and historical knowledge. It's benefited me and those I have shared the new found understanding.

repechage

Found one on the roof in the middle of the night, Hit him with the hose in Jet mode. He just reared up on his hind legs and suggested, "is that all you got?"
went for the branch trimmer pole with the saw at the end. He did acknowledge that.

USAZorro

The new future will be nano-engineering. Everything from bicycles to cars to houses to highway bridges. Carbon fiber will just be a footnote in history.

Darth Lefty 

There have in fact been a few steel airplanes; the MiG-25 is the most notable, probably. I'm pretty certain the designers in the design bureau didn't go around dissing aluminum's fatigue limit

CliffordK

Personally I try not to crash my bike.

Apparently MTBs with CF frames and CF wheels are much more resilient than road bikes with CF Frames and CF wheels, and most of the MTBs can take quite a beating. So the problem isn't as much the carbon fiber, as the ultralight construction.

It would be easy enough to implement a 1 frame & 2 wheels rule in which a rider would have to finish the race on a single frame & set of wheels. Forcing tire changes rather than wheel changes would also tend to encourage using more resilient tires and cleaning the course before the race. It may, in fact, increase rider safety not due to fewer broken bikes, but fewer support vehicles buzzing around the riders.

As far as accidents getting worse over time, there seems to be a slow creeping up in speeds. For example, the average TDF speed during the early 20th century was about 25 kph (15 mph). In the 70's and 80's, it was about 35 kph, and now about 40 kph (25 mph).



Pushing the envelope from bikes to fitness to drafting to fast hill descents, and it isn't surprising that accidents are getting worse.

Since this is the C&V Forum, why not just require all TDF bikes to be single speed flip-flop bikes with toeclips?

Darth Lefty 

Oh it gets worse Exclusive Carbon Fibre Running Bikes by MORES-DESIGN

79pmooney

1975! I rode Gary Klein's bike in 1976 when he came out to a club race and let us take a spin on it. The bike was not for me, but like you, I knew it was a breakthrough, that it was the start of some big changes.

For me, steel works just fine. Ti is a little nicer. I now have two ti bikes because I can.

And to get on topic - the one issue not addressed by the OP (and a little harder to get circumstantial evidence on) is the element of energy absorption in a crash. Metal bikes bend, absorbing real amounts of energy which perhaps the rider does not have to absorb. Carbon fiber bikes, while very strong, absorb little energy before they break. (Energy absorbed = force applied X distance the force is applied for. Say we bend a metal tube 6 " but a CF tube breaks after bending 1/2". That CF tube would have to be 6 divided by 1/2 = 12 times as stiff to absorb the same energy. Bent fork after a crash? If you are the rider, that's a good thing. The work to straighten that fork is work/energy your body didn't have to absorb.

Ben

Blue Belly

CF could certainly be laid up with more layers to increase strength. I'm not an MTB rider so, this is new to me. Makes sense, though. As far as riding flip flop hubs in the tour? I'd watch that!!! With a big emphasis on "watch". Maybe it'd lower the price of used components??? :0

79pmooney

I've got the bike. (Well, it hasn't graduated to those newfangled freewheels yet.) Flip-flop. Yeah. Toeclips. Yeah. Rode it over Bald Peak yesterday. Stopped 5 times to change gears. And had a blast! (See my logo)

Ben

gugie 

I think this is an instance of The Tragedy of the Commons. This is a free resource, at some point a pother of grobians* erupts.

I'm not sure how this forum is moderated, I'm sure there are things that will get you immediately censored. Is there anything we can do for those that don't cross that line, but push against it? In the case of one poster, I PM'ed my reply, as the tone and direction was detracting from the thread. It was a "let's take this outside" reply. I received multiple, lengthy PM's that were variations on "mine is bigger than yours" arguements. At least no one else had to deal with it.

*perusing a dictionary in my youth, I found these two archaic words, and try to use them together whenever possible.

mobilemail

The older I get, the dumber I am....

I keep meeting folks who are so much smarter than me, it's almost humiliating. But I've learned that I can be the student, and pass the knowledge at the proper time.

CliffordK

I like it.

Tot bikes don't have to be made heavier than their parent's full-sized bikes

gugie 

Is it the bike, or better chemistry?

I'd just go back to the "you gotta fix your own bike" rule.

Or an alternative stage race?...

gugie 

Damn, I clicked. Then nearly threw up.

RobbieTunes

Some Belgian that won the P-R is making a CF bike with flax fibers....