Is upgrading a nice old frame "bad?"
01-10-16 | 05:39 PM
#51
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,513
Likes: 42
From: The Great Pacific Northwest
None of my bikes are particularly special, but if they are all original and I want to upgrade, I do. I keep the original components just in case I want to sell or change back. No big deal to change out components.
I vote for keeping & upgrading current bike. As you said, you've ridden it for 10 years so you know it fits you and how it rides. No guarantee that if you bought a new bike it would work out.
I vote for keeping & upgrading current bike. As you said, you've ridden it for 10 years so you know it fits you and how it rides. No guarantee that if you bought a new bike it would work out.
01-10-16 | 07:08 PM
#52
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,722
Likes: 1,698
From: Berkeley CA
Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Speciale Corsa, 1975 Alex Singer, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1982 Raleigh "International", 1985 Trek 720
It depends. If you want a "good" bike then upgrading makes perfect sense. Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s. Its forgiving of frame building mistakes and poorly aligned and lugged tubes can be bent and forced into shape on the jig.
The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.
So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.
Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.
Reynolds Technology
The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.
So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.
Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.
Reynolds Technology
01-10-16 | 07:22 PM
#53
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 59
Likes: 4
From: North Texas
Bikes: Who cares?
When I was into cars, I used to get perturbed at people who'd swap Chevy engines into Fords. Then I realized that it didn't matter, especially when it came to engines that were getting rare. It was great that those engines were being used and seen, instead of a cookie-cutter 350, or other "easy" engines. Part of the reason I stopped with the car thing was the shows themselves, the same model cars over and over, done the same way. It was utterly boring. I loved the oddballs, but those cars were shunned when they'd show up.
It doesn't really matter, do whatever you'd like, keeping every bike as manufactured or period correct is boring. Do what makes you happy, don't be the fart huffers that have a heart attack over the right shade of paint or other utterly meaningless minutiae.
It doesn't really matter, do whatever you'd like, keeping every bike as manufactured or period correct is boring. Do what makes you happy, don't be the fart huffers that have a heart attack over the right shade of paint or other utterly meaningless minutiae.
01-13-16 | 12:52 AM
#55
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 162
From: Capestang, France
Bikes: Lots of French, some British and a couple of Italian
01-13-16 | 01:11 AM
#56
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 13
From: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Do you mean.... will Jesus cry if you up grade your bike? My guess would be NO. Upgrading and modernizing a quality old bike is perfectly normal and natural. Enjoy the project and be sure to post/share pictures here when done.
01-13-16 | 08:10 AM
#57
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Bikes: bikes I like
It depends. If you want a "good" bike then upgrading makes perfect sense. Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s. Its forgiving of frame building mistakes and poorly aligned and lugged tubes can be bent and forced into shape on the jig.
The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.
So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.
Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.
Reynolds Technology
The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.
So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.
Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.
Reynolds Technology
01-13-16 | 08:42 AM
#58
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,401
Likes: 5,333
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
the good stuff is reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. the problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. most us frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes.
The newer steels like 853 and the 9nn alloys are optimized for welding rather than brazing as welding has displaced brazing as the primary method of joining bicycle frame tubes. The newer tubes are also available in fashionably larger diameters than traditional tubes. That doesn't make them "better;" it just means they are more appropriate to use than 531 or 753 if you value the oversize tubes and/or intend to weld them.
01-13-16 | 10:31 AM
#59
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 557
Likes: 2
From: E Wa
Even mid-range stuff from the 70s and 80s goes for a lot of money on here or the bay. So you could get an old 600 setup for the same price as a barely used 105 or Ultegra Brifter setup used. Makes sense in the market to go with the updated stuff, especially since it does provide some riding benefits. Really, whatever gets you in the road and your bike out of the garage.
01-13-16 | 10:38 AM
#60
Abuse Magnet
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 188
From: Colorado
Bikes: '91 Mtn Tek Vertical, '74 Raleigh Sports, '72 Raleigh Twenty, '84 Univega Gran Turismo, '09 Surly Karate Monkey, '92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, '86 Miyata 310, '76 Raleigh Shopper
This is simply my opinion and is not based on any expertise, but...if the bike is not going to be a collector's item where keeping it original will affect its resale value, and you simply want to ride a nice old bike, then yeah, upgrade that sucker. Whatever it takes to keep it on the road.
My first bike build was a Raleigh Sports, frame only, that turned into quite the frankenbike by the time I was finished. However, most of the changes were upgrades rather than blatant changes...I kept it a 3-speed.
My first bike build was a Raleigh Sports, frame only, that turned into quite the frankenbike by the time I was finished. However, most of the changes were upgrades rather than blatant changes...I kept it a 3-speed.
01-13-16 | 01:23 PM
#61
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,328
Likes: 525
From: Dublin, Ireland
Bikes: Bianchi Ti Megatube; Colnago Competition; Planet-X EC-130E; Klein Pulse; Amp Research B4; Litespeed Catalyst; Trek Y11
I just took an old Bianchi Sprint 76 (which I may have paid over the odds for, but what the heck), that probably "wasn't worth fixing" to most people, which had definitely seen better days... and I put it back on the road with a mix of Campy 9-speed Mirage & Veloce, + a set of Campy Khamsin wheels I got for a smokin' price off eBay - and I love it, absolutely brilliant to use for commuting into & out of the city.
Otherwise, it'd just be sitting in the back of a vintage Italian scooter shop in Ireland.
So *please* go and upgrade that old bike, and *enjoy it*.
Otherwise, it'd just be sitting in the back of a vintage Italian scooter shop in Ireland.
So *please* go and upgrade that old bike, and *enjoy it*.
01-13-16 | 01:40 PM
#62
Extraordinary Magnitude
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,085
Likes: 2,140
From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
This is simply my opinion and is not based on any expertise, but...if the bike is not going to be a collector's item where keeping it original will affect its resale value, and you simply want to ride a nice old bike, then yeah, upgrade that sucker. Whatever it takes to keep it on the road.
I don't understand the person who goes looking for a highly desirable bike, manages to acquire one- and then spray paints it bright orange as "theft deterrent" and THEN decides he doesn't like it.
Actually, I do understand that person. That person lacks intelligence.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
01-13-16 | 04:34 PM
#63
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,299
Likes: 6,556
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Upgrading nice old frames is about half the activity here in C&V. It's what we love to do. Do it, and share your joy with us.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
01-13-16 | 04:39 PM
#64
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,299
Likes: 6,556
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Which tube set are you speaking of? A great number of tube sets have been made with 531 metallurgy, using various dimensions and gauges and shapes. If you had a bad experience with one or two 531 frames, that doesn't mean they're all bad. It's like saying all Bridgestone car tires are bad because a few of them failed for various reasons.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
