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1950's Raleigh Clubman?

Old 03-10-16, 09:35 AM
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shadaboot28
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1950's Raleigh Clubman?

I just bought this. I'm pretty certain it's a 50's Raleigh Clubman but I'd like a second opinion. Sorry for the bad pictures, I haven't collected it yet, these were the pictures on the eBay listing. I have suspicions that the brake calipers, levers, mudguards and the gear lever and pulley wheel are all later additions/replacements. Does anyone know what the correct brakes and guards would be? I've got thoughts of a full respray and re-chrome going round my head but I know I just can't afford it.

If anyone could help with a rough date and model that would be a big help.

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Old 03-10-16, 10:03 AM
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I'm always interested in the type of bike that is beyond preservation. I've been doing this for years, but they were never the more exotic models like this one. If you do decide on a full bore restoration, I hope you'll take the time to post your progress. A very interesting project.
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Old 03-10-16, 11:13 AM
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It looks to be a Clubman and possibly RRA. This will be a beauty and can't wait for one of the pro's to chime in. I have some ideas but will keep my mouth shut for now. I recently picked up a Clubman that appears 51'.

Mine was a frankenbuild, but the guy I bought from recently contacted me as he had some other parts he found that went with it and he forgot to include. So I now have calipers and crank for a Clubman. I can look at/post the calipers later if no one has ID'd.
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Old 03-10-16, 12:06 PM
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nlerner
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Looks like a reasonable guess. There's a hint of that '50-51 Clubman "electric flamboyant blue," and the seat cluster lug looks right. Can't tell much else from those pics.

I've owned a '50 and a '51 Clubman (and that's the last year they were made). They only came in 22" frames, with 27" wheels in both of those years (I still have a '49 Clubman with EA1 wheels), only in blue. Here's my '51:

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Old 03-10-16, 12:08 PM
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Differences between Clubman, Lentons and RRA can be tough from pictures, and I don't yet know what exactly to look for yet (coming up to speed after purchasing a '49 Clubman).

Most helpful online resource I've found is here.

edit: also, a full on drive-side picture, and closer pictures of the head and seat lugs would be helpful, as would the serial number. Thanks, and congrats.
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Old 03-10-16, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post


a full on drive-side picture, and closer pictures of the head and seat lugs would be helpful, as would the serial number.
This^

From what I recently recall, Clubmans and RRA's have chrome socks on the forks and stays. One point made to me is the RRA usually has the cable guide on the seat tube (not under tt). That would make this an even better find. And the lugs on the Clubman are the type you have here, the same as mine. I don't think the Lentons had that type, but RRA may have. Basically an RRA is a custom order version of the Clubman and could take 6 months to a year to obtain. You could choose to have things added or subtracted and moved around. The slots in the dropout support the 50's, maybe older, not sure on that part but newer has a triangle there.

Both seem quite difficult to find and I think are chromoly.

Paging @rhm

edit: I would not do anything but do a complete overhaul and cleanup first, then decide if you want to paint, you may like the outcome and more value is retained IMO.

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Old 03-10-16, 01:02 PM
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Until I collect the bike and gets some better pics all I can give is some more info on the parts.

It has alloy EA rims
brooks b17 saddle
alloy seat post
alloy handlebars
pinch bolt head set
cranks similar to lenton cranks but with the Raleigh heron on them
Sturmey Archer wing nuts
Braised on mudguard brackets (half way up the forks)
Lugs similar to lentons.

I don't think it is a RRA , but I wish it was!

When I get some better pictures I will post them up. And I will check the rear hub for a date.
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Old 03-10-16, 01:05 PM
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Are the wheels 27" or 26"? (Could narrow it down to '49 or later)
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Old 03-10-16, 01:10 PM
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Just a personal opinion here, but I believe that the condition of a bike can deteriorate to a point where a well researched and executed restoration is preferable to preservation. True, the expense of a quality restoration usually exceeds the value of the finished product, but to me, they are a joy to see if done well.
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Old 03-10-16, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Looks like a reasonable guess. There's a hint of that '50-51 Clubman "electric flamboyant blue," and the seat cluster lug looks right. Can't tell much else from those pics.

I've owned a '50 and a '51 Clubman (and that's the last year they were made). They only came in 22" frames, with 27" wheels in both of those years (I still have a '49 Clubman with EA1 wheels), only in blue. Here's my '51:


That's a stunning bike! I'd love to get my hands on one in that sort of condition!

did they ever make Clubmans with 23'' frames?
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Old 03-10-16, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Are the wheels 27" or 26"? (Could narrow it down to '49 or later)
I'm not sure to be honest. I will only know once I have collected the bike. But from the pics they look like 26''
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Old 03-10-16, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shadaboot28 View Post
....

did they ever make Clubmans with 23'' frames?
See link: Retro Raleighs: The Raleigh Clubman by Peter C. Kohler
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Old 03-10-16, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
Just a personal opinion here, but I believe that the condition of a bike can deteriorate to a point where a well researched and executed restoration is preferable to preservation. True, the expense of a quality restoration usually exceeds the value of the finished product, but to me, they are a joy to see if done well.
I totally agree! I only agree with full restorations if the bike is in terrible condition to start with. And I agree that a restoration on a bike like this must be well researched and done to a very high standard. But to be honest the bikes that I like to have in my collection have to be in very good original condition. I do like well executed restorations but I cannot justify the time and cost it would take on a bike that im not even going to ride! So I will probably end up taking a few rare bits off this like the rims and cranks then selling the rest off. Then hopefully one day i'll find a better condition example that I can keep.
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Old 03-10-16, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
After looking at that, I'm almost 100% its a clubman. Thanks
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Old 03-10-16, 01:38 PM
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and some Raleigh catalogues at Veteran-Cycle Club Online Library
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Old 03-10-16, 02:38 PM
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Old 03-10-16, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shadaboot28 View Post
Then hopefully one day i'll find a better condition example that I can keep.
Vintage Bicycle, Raleigh Clubman 1952 | eBay
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Old 03-10-16, 04:26 PM
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I think it's a Clubman, '49 or '50. I think later models had braze-on pulley wheels?.
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Old 03-11-16, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Block View Post

Thanks! I'm going to keep an eye on that!
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Old 03-11-16, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I think it's a Clubman, '49 or '50. I think later models had braze-on pulley wheels?.
the OP bike or the one on ebay?
In the table on Retro Raleighs: The Raleigh Clubman by Peter C. Kohler it has olive green available for 1948 and 1949, but electric blue became available in 1950. To me, both the OP photos and the ebay one show provision for the pulley mount associated with the lug.
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Old 03-11-16, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Block View Post
the OP bike or the one on ebay?
In the table on Retro Raleighs: The Raleigh Clubman by Peter C. Kohler it has olive green available for 1948 and 1949, but electric blue became available in 1950. To me, both the OP photos and the ebay one show provision for the pulley mount associated with the lug.
I agree with the exception of there being a pulley mount. Looks like a band clamp to me and the NDS side doesn't reveal one either. Maybe its a transitional frame, caught between models. @nlerner has a '49 in blue and the EA1 rims push the age in that direction. I'd love to see some chrome on the frame and fork but the pics aren't there.


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Old 03-11-16, 07:07 AM
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My '49 is green and has EA1 wheels. '50 and '51 are blue with 27" wheels.
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Old 03-11-16, 08:13 AM
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Sorry I miss read Post 10. This one will just have to wait for better pictures
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Old 03-11-16, 08:17 AM
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It's a bike I would be cautious about if only because it is in such por condition. It's have the brakes swapped out so who knows maybe it's been painted as well but it's obviously been left outside for a period of time
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Old 03-11-16, 08:23 AM
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The RRA frame has a few extra features that I'm not seeing here: little nipples on the inner side of the seat stays above the brake bridge (for a bag support); similar nipples on the inner side of the fork blades (for light mounts); brazed on pulley mount at the top of the seat tube (not under the corner like on the Lenton Sports); and brake cable guides (not stops) on the right side of the top tube. These being absent, I don't think its an RRA. Of course you knew that, but I'm just adding the few details I know.
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