Hi

I'm looking at completing a transaction on a Cinelli but I need some information/assistance. If you are knowledgeable on the brand (can identify different models) please PM me as I have some questions/photos I need help with. Thanks in advance.

My advice is to post your question and pictures here and now. The experts will come after you do that. They're not going to queue up and wait for your questions.

Hopefully not a ho-hum frame with a Cinelli brand bottom bracket shell.

I would normally do that although I would've preferred in this case not to. In any case - I want to attach photos but for some reason, when I reply and "Go Advanced", I'm not getting the option to upload/attach photos for some reason. Anyone else getting this problem?

OK - here's the photos.

Is this an original-paint Cinelli?

I just noticed the cable guides are above the BB, which AFAIK, are generally pre-1980s. The stickers are 1990s though. So is this counterfeit?

If it's legit, it's almost certainly a re-paint.

I'll go out on a limb, and say, 'nope'.

It doesn't look like a Cinelli to me. The fact that it has a Cinelli bottom bracket shell means little; many builders used them, even Trek here in the USA. The Gipiemme dropouts suggest a smaller, perhaps Italian builder. What's the bottom bracket thread?

And the winged logo on the bottom bracket shell is 1980s or later. Earlier shells looked like this:

Yup, the signature chromed seat lug isn't there. Looks like a nice quality frame otherwise. The aero shift lever mount is especially interesting....

Not a Cinelli

I wonder with all the claims made much later that a frame with a Cinelli brand bottom bracket shell was a Cinelli brand frame would Cino have done something else to differentiate things.

It is simply put - not a Cinelli. It has Cinelli frame buildning parts but that does not make it a Cinelli. That is a resprayed and re-decaled bike of another make/brand. It has none of the Cinelli signature "moves". Wrong seatstay/seat cluster, wrong fork crown, wrong fork ends, etc. etc.

I don't know why but I think Specialized when I look at that. Maybe the drop. Odd to have a pump peg but over the top guides as well.

I don't know about all Cinelli but they seem to say Cinelli SC- made in Italy on the bb or Cinelli (large type) - then smaller SC made in Italy.

It doesn't mean it's counterfeit, it's just not likely to be a Cinelli based on my eye but mainly on my more-esteemable colleagues here.

Possibilities:
1. It's a rather decent frame from a fine maker that is much smaller than Cinelli, and a previous owner decided he thinks it is really a Cinelli, and has tried to correct it according to what he believes. I think this scenario is a mistake, not a counterfeit.

2. It's also possible a similarly clueless person intentionally misrepresented a flipper frame with good workmanship as a Cinelli and in that case it is a counterfeit. Crook failed to research to signs of a real Cinelli to determine if his ruse is plausibly successful.

3. Given that the cable guides above the BB are pre-1977 or whatever was said, most of those Campagnolo parts are much more recent offerrings. Showing us pictures of the parts is entertaining but irrelevant to frame identification or quality assessment.

4. It's much more useful to show the side elevation (thank you!), close clear shots of all the lugs, dropouts, bridges, braze-ons and other joinings, close clear shots of any stampings or other insignia planted in the frame metal. Also close clear shots of any remaining decals, like on your downtube and head tube.

Thanks for the opine. The pics are taken from the ad, so that's all I can provide.

How can you tell the dropouts are Gipiemme?

Would a true Cinelli have anything but Campy dropouts?

80' forward also began the serial with year for the first two digits on the bb. Not sure how long that went but I would image through the 80's.

You're welcome, thanks for offering as much as was available!

Have you been able to ride it? It certainly looks like a good frame. But don't overpay.

They look like these distinctive Gipiemme dropouts (except for the brand-specific pantographing):