hansmanos

I posted this thing on "what's it worth?" a couple of days ago and ended up bringing her home. My current daily is a Novara Big Buzz, so I was looking for something a little sexier and more fun to ride up hills. I ended up with this Peugeot, which I hope to do a lot of cleaning and refurbishing to in the coming months. This is my first vintage bike.

I'm eager to learn from this community; from the response to my original post, I can tell you guys are very helpful and willing to share your knowledge. Here are my first set of questions:

1) What year is this thing?

2) Any chance of saving the rusty chain, or should I go new?

3) Would you move the shifters back?

4) Any recommendations for a longer stem? I'd like one as long as possible that still looks good.

5) What else would you do to her, besides tape and cleaning and general tune-up?

Thanks!

Narhay

Looks like a great bike. I would get a new chain. I like bar end shifters...some prefer downtube shifters. Try them out and see if they work for you.

In terms of a stem you would have to source a 22.0 stem, most likely on eBay. Otherwise the new $13 origin8 classique quill stems fit the French steerers and the label rubs off with some steel wool.

spock345

Probably mid seventies judging by the simpler lugs. Early 70's and 60's models used more ornate nervex professional lugs.

Can you get a closer picture of the bar end shifters? I think you may be one of the lucky few that have a set of simplex retro-friction bar end shifters. They are rather difficult to find and retro friction shifters are probably the best friction shifters made.

For the stem, do you care about period correct parts? If so then look for older french stems on ebay, and avoid AVA stems.

Also closer pictures of the brake levers and calipers? They look like they might be universals, but I can't tell. That would determine where you go to find replacement hoods for the levers.

Also you can use aluminum foil and water to clean any rust off of chrome parts. A new chain is a good idea. You can also get modern top tube brake cable clips to replace those zip ties. Newbaums cloth bar tape is a good option if you want to stay with that on this bike. If I recall correctly those rims should be clinchers so a good option for gumwall tires are panaracer paselas. The brake pads may need replacing. I would also rebuild the bottom bracket, hubs, and headset with fresh grease.

Kactus

I would remove the kick stand and check the stays. Those stands were often overtightened and damaged the stays.

I'd go with a new chain. You can buy a KMC 8 spd chain for around $15.

The bike looks to be in great condition, great choice.

Salamandrine 

1) 1972

2) Chains are consumables. New ones are better anyway. KMC 6/7/8 is fine.

3) It's up to you but I wouldn't. It's a period correct upgrade and probably more desirable to most people today. Are they simplex bar ends? if so, extremely rare and rad.

4) Merckx used Cinelli on his PX10, so that gets my vote. Typical length would be maybe 10-11cm (vs like 3 that's on there). Frenchie stems were 22.0 vs 22.2 for everyone else. You can sand a normal 22.2 stem slightly so it fits, but try it first cuz often it's not necessary. Easier if you start with a vintage un-anodized stem so you don't have to sand and polish the whole thing.

Don't forget handlebar compatibility. Borrow, buy or otherwise acquire a vernier caliper. Loosen stem and measure bar diameter. If it is 25.0, you have to look for vintage french stem, or buy new bars, or shim.

5) Replace all the consumables. Tires (pasela good and cheap), tubes, rim tape, handlebar tape. I'd suggest new cables and housing all around. VO braided stuff is very good. Probably new brake hoods too. Rustines are just like the originals.

Get yourself a tube of simichrome or wenol for the aluminum parts and go to town.

Salamandrine 

Also, get yourself some proper cable clips for holding the brake cable to the top tube. Zip ties not allowed!!!! Make sure you order 25.4mm.

Lascauxcaveman 

Absolutely ditch the old chain. That bike deserves a $14 investment, at the very least Think 8-speed chain for starters. Any one available will be better than what you have now.

Ditto on getting whatever 22.0 stem you like; the you have is really short, especailly for such a big frame. Are you 6' or better? If so, the bike will probably fit you pretty well. Get some chrome top tube cable clamps to replace those zip ties.

Probably needs new tires, lube in hubs, headset and bottom bracket (if it hasn't been done recently) and possibly cables and housings. Then ride it as it sits; give those Simplex derailleurs a chance, they are fragile with age, but they work pretty well until they break.

Lascauxcaveman 

I would also give the barcons a fair trial before going back to downtube shifters. I like them both well enough, but since you already have barcons...

Salamandrine 

Yeah, overhaul everything. To do the BB, you will need to borrow or purchase a Stronglight crank puller. If you do pull the cranks, when reassembling Stronglight 93, I prefer to use very light grease on the tapers, blue loctite on the crank bolts. Tighten to 25-30 ft/lb. They can take it.

That front derailleur is very poorly positioned. The cage should be rotated a bit and the derailleur repositioned so that the changer is evenly spaced from the chainring. Gap should be ~1/16-3/32" Do not overtighten the clamp though, that's the part that breaks --leading to the simplex derailleurs are weak myth.

SkyDog75

1) Taking an educated guess from the decals, early 1970s. Earlier '70s downtube decals were rectangular like yours. Later, the ends of the stripes were angled. But it's Peugeot, so who knows. You might be able to spot a date code on a component to narrow it down. I found a month & date on the inside face of my Peugeot UO-8's rear derailleur cage, between the pulleys.

2) You probably could save the chain, but unless you're going for OCD levels of originality, I'd just swap it for a new one. A KMC 5/6/7 speed chain will only set you back about ten bucks.

3) I personally like bar end shifters, so I'd keep 'em. Some racers used them back in the day, so it's not like they're out of character on this bike. The cable routing could be cleaned up, though.

4) If you can't find an appropriately sized vintage French stem, Soma Sutro stems are available with longer quills and reach. Yojimbo's Garage sells 'em on eBay for a reasonable price. Like any other new stem, they're not French-sized, though, so you'd have to do some work to make things fit. You may have to sand the quill down from 22.2 mm to the French 22.0 mm spec. You're just removing .1 mm from the surface, so it's not a lot of work. And if you use a French sized (25.0 mm) handlebar, you'd have to shim the stem's bar clamp down from 25.4 or 26.0 mm.

5) Personally, I'd do a complete teardown. Clean it up. Service bottom bracket, headset, hub, and pedal bearings. Replace cables and housings, and replace the zip ties with real clips. Probably change the tires since I've had some bad experiences with old rubber. Ditch the kickstand. Dial in seatpost/saddle/bar/lever fit. Re-tape the handlebar. Try to source new brake hoods if necessary. It's a lot of work, but I'd enjoy every minute of it.

hansmanos

Thanks, everyone!

Yes, obviously the 5-pound kickstand anchor has to go. Makes it easier to take pictures though!

The bar end shifters are indeed Simplex, wrapped in electrical tape. I'll learn to love them.

As for the stem, it doesn't need to be a period piece, and I don't mind sanding. I'll check out your recommendations. Thanks!






P.S.- 6'3" long arms and torso compared to my legs. Found the biggest frame I could stand over without causing damage (I've got about an inch of clearance).

Salamandrine 

Dang, simplex bar ends. Those are rarer than hens teeth.

Weird that it has Universal brake calipers and Mafac levers. Perhaps they needed a little shorter reach if the wheels are 27 x 1 1/4". Are they?

FWIW I had great fun fixing my PX10 last year, and it need a whole lot more than that one. Make sure to have fun instead of work!

spock345

Since the brakes are universals I will assume the levers are the same brand, look at what is written on the beaten up hoods to confirm. Therefore reproduction hoods will be more difficult but they exist.

Iowegian

Nice bike! PX-10's ride very nicely and a blue one is uncommon as most were white.
You do know there are some additional challenges with older French bikes I hope. Many of the parts on your bike use special sizes and many modern parts may not fit.


As a first cut list, here are some of the sizings that you need to be aware of:


The fork and bottom bracket are probably 'french threaded' meaing 35mm x 1mm. The bottom bracket probably has RH threads on both sides.


The stem needs a different insertion diameter and if your bars are French a different clamp diameter than most other bikes. It is not hard to make a 'regular' stem fit into your bike but you will need to have 0.2mm milled (or sanded) off the diameter where it inserts into the fork. French bikes use a 22.0mm insertion while most bikes of that general size use 22.2mm. (7/8"). French handle bar clamps are 25.0mm while most other similar bars are 25.4mm (1") or 26mm. A few are 26.4mm.


The pedals may also be french threaded 14mm 1.25mm instead of the more common 9/16" x 20TPI.


The holes where the dust caps on the crank arms and where the crank extractor is used may be 23.35 mm - if so, DO NOT USE a regular 22mm crank extractor or you will ruin the beautiful Stronglight 93 crankarms on your bike by stripping the threads


The diameter of the top tube may be slightly smaller than most other bikes so you may need cable clips designed for this (or not, it's a small difference)


The rear derailleur hanger is proprietary for the Simplex brand of derailleur installed so modern derailleurs won't work as-is.


A few other tidbits,


It is hard to find good replacement cones for Normandy hubs so if your bike has those, keep them in good shape. You've already lost the plastic ends on the quick-release (no big deal....) but if you want replacements, they are quite expensive and not easy to find.


So now that you're up to speed on what makes your bike different, what to do?


You will need a bunch of special and not cheap tools to overhaul your bike or find a bike shop that has them. If you just want to ride the bikes I'd make sure the hubs are well greased and take it for a spin to see how it fits. Then find a new stem (and possibly bars) to make it comfortable for you. Decide whether to keep the bar-ends or get down-tube shifters. The original Simplex shifters were plastic (Delrin) and not really spiffy so anything that works could be considered an upgrade. If you want to upgrade the rear derailleur to something non-Simplex you'll have to modify the frame by tapping the hole to make it fit. There may also be issues with whether or not there is a 'stop tab' on the drop-out so look into that also.


If it was me, I'd first find some new Simplex cable clamps to replace the zip-ties (made for French or 'metric' tubing), buy a special tool for the bottom bracket removal (assuming yours is 23.35mm). Replace the tires, brake pads, cables if needed, check the chain for wear. It should be close to 12.0" for 24 half-links, if it's over 12 1/8 " you need a new chain, but then you will also need a new freewheel and if that is French threaded (35mm x 1mm like the bottom bracket, you can use the lock ring to check) then you'll need to source one of those or get a new rear hub/wheel. So.....I'd just soak the chain in mineral spirits and then oil it. I bet it will come out fine until you can decide how deep into this you want to get.


Hope this helps and wasn't too long. I think you'll enjoy the bike and it is really quite nice and in exceptional condition. Bon chance!

SkyDog75

Simplex delrin derailleurs' bad reputation might be a little bit overblown, but I'm convinced they ARE weak or that they can become brittle with age. I've seen more cracked than intact fronts in the wild. I have a Peugeot and a Follis in the garage, both from the early '70s, both of which came with Simplex delrin derailleurs. The Follis' front derailleur was gone, except for some of the clamp that remained on the seat tube. The Peugeot's was intact, but it looked like years of UV exposure didn't do it any favors. The Peugeot's rear derailleur body was cracked. Between the two bikes, only one derailleur pulley hadn't cracked and lost some teeth. Two bikes is an admittedly small sample size, but sometimes it only takes a small sampling to draw conclusions. Some people have obviously had better luck with them than I have, but I don't trust 'em.

Salamandrine 

Oh, no arguments from me. They do break, mostly the fronts. But it is overblown. I commuted ~15 miles a day for most of the 90s on a 72 px10 with original delrin derailleurs, and never had a problem. At this point however, they are pushing 50 years old, and no matter how cool dupont delrin is, it's starting to break down by now.

Even so, I would ride as is until there is a problem. That bike looks like it was stored indoors most of its life, and didn't get too much UV.

italianbiker

FWIW, I still have to replace a chain on my old bikes, I'm not sure what a new one feels like. I bet that chain has low miles on it just by the condition of the bike.

The chain is a small investment but I have been lucky with just some WD40 on the chain and all cogs. After a few rides the chain will look pretty decent. The surface rust will just wash away and I bet your looking at mostly surface rust. I've had chains far worse that and have cleaned up nicely after this treatment and riding. Try to save it first.

rootboy 

Somebody clue me in on the top jockey wheel on that derailleur. Am I seeing things? It looks like it has no teeth.

What a shame they put the license right over the Reynolds decal. So it goes. Not that uncommon I suppose.
If it were me I'd peel that thing off and get a water slide replacement from Nick at Lloyd's, or Gus Salmon.

And odd it has an English stem on it. Probably put there by some shop to shorten up the bike for someone.
An old Phillippe would look great on the. Or even a Pivo.

EDIT: I thought that was a GB stem, but apparently not. What is it? Anyone know what "BF" is?
( why...Bike Forums, of course ! )
Very nice bike.

qcpmsame 

Glad you did decide to purchase the Pug, it should make you a wonderful, smooth riding bike, for many years if you get things sorted well, and then maintain it, but nothing OCD about what maintenance to do. I am probably just repeating the things folks above have already stated, but here is my 2¢ worth and that is probably overvalued, too.

I would take time to take it down and get the bearings all cleaned and greased (the bottom bracket, wheels, pedals, etc.) replace all the cables, and housings if those are questionable. I would definitely replace that chain, that will be something that should not even be thought about keeping if you are going to ride this nice bike.

Stems are something that should be a matter of fitting you, as said eBay has just about any make you could want, in most lengths that have been made over the years. Personally, I would seek out a period correct Cinelli, in the length suited for you, and some 3ttt, or Cinelli bars wrapped in a quality cloth tape of the color you like. The bar end shifters would stay, just clean and service them, you will thank everyone that told you this.

What Rootboy said about the rear derailleur top jockey wheel, replace that one if you decide to keep the Simplex components. If you don't keep them find some nice SunTour derailleurs, from eBay, or from someone here that offers them up for sale or to swap. I had a bad experience with the Simplex Delrin mechanicals back in 1971, and I have stayed far away from them. Up to you, some here have successfully used them, but as said, they are ~50 years old now.

Tires, Panaracer Paselas in gumwall, probably either a 25 or a 28 width. Then put it together with care, do things correctly (no corners cut on this one,) use quality grease, and measure when you need to measure. Enjoy this one, as everyone said, its a definite keeper, you done good, sir, you done good.

Bill

rootboy 

This one isn't bad;

Vintage Pivo Alloy Stem 75 mm x 22 0 mm 25 2 Binder France Used | eBay

Vintage Raleigh

4) Any recommendations for a longer stem? I'd like one as long as possible that still looks good.

I'd recommend a stem that's the right length for your reach. Rest your forearm along the top tube with your upper arm touching the seat nose. 1-2cm from your outstretched finger tips is approx where you want the top of the handlebars to be. This is your guide for head stem length.
It's a decent bike so worthy of a decent stem (as mentioned compatible clamp / stem size)

5) What else would you do to her, besides tape and cleaning and general tune-up?

If it was my bike, I'd strip, clean and reassemble with new bearings, grease, cables, shoes, tyres, tubes and tape.
Probably go a nos period chain and freewheel then I could relax and ride it and forget about 40yo bits falling off.

JohnDThompson 

If those are the retrofriction version of the Simplex bar-end shifters, they're probably worth as much or more than the rest of the bike altogether.

juls

I would keep the shift jackets as they are till you get the new stem-(lucky actually that they are on the long side on such a short stem!) Nice find.

lostarchitect 

Awesome bike, great find. I agree with pretty much all the advice you've gotten: replace the chain, regrease everything, and ride that baby! I'd also consider replacing the cables, housings, pads, and tires and tubes.

ps. Looks like you're a vintage audio enthusiast too?

rootboy 

The PX-10 just may be the most common bike from that era asked about on this forum. They sold a bunch of them back then. Including one to me in 72.
Nice to see a blue one.

FWIW, Gus Salmon just did a run of French Reynolds 531 water slide decals, which he showed off over on the CR list. They look very nice. When I last looked, though, the only comment was from some member saying he had neglected to add the little accents over the "e's' in "reinforces, etc.
Know Gus, I'll bet he fixes that, and then he may have the only truly accurate early French language 531 decals available.