This summer I nabbed a very nice '87 Miyata 712 with a full 105 group. Miyata hasnt really had my interest through the years though this one is an interesting little bike. So, I'm wondering what your choice would be if you could swap the groupset over to an Ironman Expert frame or leave the 712 intact. This is the thrift shop 20.00 find:

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I wouldn't lose any sleep over changing over the parts. Is the expert a better frame tubing than the 712? Or do you like the geometry better?

The Old Nail was this bike's little brother, a 512.
Me, I'd leave it as-is, but I also have an '88 and '89 Ironman out in the barn.

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Although I'd rather ride an Ironman. I'd leave it. That bike looks cool. Does it fit? What's the tubing? Yeah definitely leave it, its nice.

Tubing should be Miyata's proprietary triple-butted chro-mo. I don't remember if the 712s were splined or not. Pretty sure the 912s were, but my 512 was not.

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I've got got a lifetime supply of 105 kits, including rd, fd, calipers, levers, cranks, and dt shifters. If you want, let me know what kind of budget you have to work with. Lots of handlebars too.

The bike fits me perfectly, 54cm or so, short top tube. I am curious what the opinions would be. I like the bike but when it's a full 105 it seems to give me the permission and option to build a decent Expert. The only thing I dont like on the 712 is that top tube cable routing with it's common cracking. This one has a very small crack off that rearward hole. Otherwise, sharp bike and has a great feel to the ride.

Hmmm, initially I was thinking just buy a 105 group or take OJ2 up on his offer. But now with the tubing and eyelets turn it into a sport tourer with a triple crankset and use all the 105 components for your Ironman Expert. It'll be hard to find a complete group for 20 bucks. (I reserve the right to change my mind again).

I realize I may be the exception, but I'd take that Miyata over the Ironman. If anything, if you're going to swap the group over, you should upgrade the Miyata.

I'm a fan of both brands and could be happy on either. In the end, it would probably come down to frame condition and whether the paint scheme on the Centurion is more appealing. The Miyata's lilac fade to white is not my favourite. A Centurion Ironman Expert frame in comparable or better condition with a smoke or marble finish would get my vote, while a poor condition finish and/or the magenta and yellow scheme would have me happily pedaling away on the Miyata.

I am of the same opinion. I feel Miyata's were overall better built bikes.

I like the Miyata 712, lavender and all. The full 105 is spiffy (the "full" is why I like it), it is well built and rides with a very dialed in feel to it. It's likely I'll snag a 14-28 and give it a chance on the routes next summer before I decide to swap over.

Aaargh!

Don't undress the Barbie.
Or, a bird in the hand thing. Keep the Miyata as is.

1-It fits.
2-It's already done.
3-Ride it until the cable guides give way. They eventually will.

You now have a chance, and the time, to hot rod the Real Deal while you ride just another bike.

Just being objective.

Ironmans are almost as common as Colnago or De Rosa. Unless the ride is really bad or you hate the color keep the Miyata

I've never understood why a house brand like Centurion (the house being Western States Import) gets so much attention. Miyata bikes came from their own factory and, among the bike racers I knew in the '80s, were the only Japanese bikes spoken of as equivalent in quality to the best European bikes.

A ton of triathletes may disagree, along with two riders I know, one who was a state road race champ, and the other, a 2-time state TT champ. However, I've never had a Miyata other than a Two Ten, though the 912 and the Teams look pretty good. I do know a BF member who's had 2 Ironman bikes, a Team Miyata and a Team Carbon Miyata. He does not share your sentiment, or mine. He rides a Willier Gran Fondo, so we both lost that one....

I see we still have work to do.

+ 1. My team miyata is hands down the best race bike I've ridden.

Well maybe....for you. But the OP bike has fender eyelets and although you could race it, its not a racer, and the reason I'd swap the parts. Still that Miyata is cool as it sits.

True, but it COULD be set up as a rando bike, like this '81 710:




Don't let the decals fool you.

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Right on and you have my way of thinking correct. This bike is cool, no doubt. However, it really isnt my style or preference but is a good addition to my little fleet. There is that matter of weight I dont care for. At 23.5lbs it is the heavyweight.

I hear you. I think a triple is more appropriate for the Miyata sport tourer.
So are you putting the 105 on the Ironman? My 87 expert has the original 1st generation 105 and I gotta tell, that is a component group that has withstood the test of time. It shifts and stops very well. In fact the FD shifts so smoothly I have to look down to make sure it shifted. The DT shifters are not a detriment for me.

Right, I was thinking of getting the Expert frame just as a better home for that 105 group. Very nice components.

SR bikes were also WSI and imo, darned near equal in quality to Centurion and Miyatas. I've owned top tier examples of all three, except the Centurion was track. It was a cut above. You might appreciate that