Hi,


I dind't like the noise coming from the rear hub/freewheel so I decidet to open it. I saw here that the freewhel body can be opened but how can I do it? I would like to service that bearings inside (hope only grease)


https://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour-freewheel.html




I opened the hub and I thought that this were supposed to be semi-cartridge? Mines look like cartridge? Maibe the first owner changed them?


the pic from the drive side. I see that the nut is attached to the cartridge?. The axle comes from the non drive side but I see that thelast nut from the drive side is attached? should I push it from the non drive side?


I want to be sure before I do something wrong with my beloved superbe hubs. Thank you

That looks like a "New Winner" freewheel. Unlike other SunTour freewheels, which used a left-hand threaded cone that could be removed with a pin spanner, and a variety of thin spacers to provide adjustment, the New Winner has a cone and lockring and a special tool to open and adjust the freewheel:



I've found it to be rather a PITA, though. Unless there's some egregious problem, I'd just flush it out with solvent and re-lubricate. If there is an egregious problem, I'd consider sending it to @pastorbob; for rehabilitation.

Are you sure the noise is coming from the FW? Understand that FW bearings carry almost no load. They aren't spinning when you are pedaling, and when you are pedaling they aren't rolling. Which is to say they are not especially critical. Maybe letting some oil settle into it will quiet it down.

If the noise is from the wheel bearings in the hub, then they need to be cleaned and rebuilt. I can't tell if those are cartridge bearings in your hubs. I have one set of Superbe hubs and they have conventional loose bearings and cones, pretty easy to rebuild.

How can I lubricate the freewheel without opening it?

The bearings looked like cartridge but i will try to find out where this noise comes from. I think someone changed the original bearing for this cartridge

The hub looks like sealed bearing to me. You should be able to hold the axle and spin the wheel in your hands and know how smooth or not the bearings are. You may even hear a noise!

If you spin the block on the freewheel, you will notice that where the "joint" is between the two. Dunk cleaner into that space and spin in a horizontal position so the gunk comes out the other side. Keep adding until it is clear and spins freely. Let it dry out, maybe wait 24 hours, and then do the same with added oil. Just don't over do the oil or it will continue to weep out all over the back of the bike including the braking surface of the rim.

Someone will add to this with a suggestion of type of oil.

There are a couple of threads on cleaning freewheels.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...freewheel.html

I think the conventional wisdom is to flush the freewheel out with WD 40 and then lubricate it. All I ever do is run Phil oil through it until it turns well without noise.

These look like sealed hubs to me as well.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...-bearings.html

Can you describe the noise?
Also, under what conditions do you hear the noise? i.e. only when pedaling, only when coasting, only when standing up to pedal, etc.


Can you confirm that the freewheel model is a New Winner? Is there any marking?
Not to dispute John T., but the photo looks like it has 4 notches for the removal tool, and my New Winners have only two notches. If it has 4 notches and is a Winner Pro, then it's more plausible to open it up and mess with it.... although I'd still recommend lube first. Just dribble some oil into the gap at the back of the freewheel with it laying on the work bench (with a rag below it, to absorb the oil that flows through the freewheel).


Steve in Peoria

The body has 4 notches and it says winner. How can I open it if it's a winner?
It put some oil in the gap as you recommend. I tokk the nut from the hub away (drive side). Both are cartridge so the first owner changed the original ones. The hubs spins well but ther is something in the drive side, I will keep an eye on it because maibe I should change that 6001 catridge.

First, determine where the noise is coming from. If it's coming from the bearings in the hub, replacing the bearings is probably your best approach. If it's coming from the freewheel, leave the hub alone.

Overhauling a freewheel is a lot of work and of questionable value. Often, flushing it with lubricant will clean it just fine. Try that before you open it.

Thank you guys. I think the freewheel is fine after the oil. I think the freewheel is a new winner ultra. It has the inner ring inside the firs cog so the top plate won't come out. But the strange thing is that it has the 4 notches and not the 2!

thank you, I spined the wheel and I think one ball is not perfect. I can feel it even the hub spins very nicely 99% of the turn

thank you, It helped quite a lot. I the next months I should change uno of the cartridges (drive side).

My Winner Pro freewheels look like this, and just say "Winner" on it (a bit confusing, I think) ....



One sign of a Winner Pro is the fact that only the small cog(s) thread on. The rest are splined, and use two different spline types. Not too easy to check if you don't have some chain whips, though.
It can be disassembled by using a pin tool, or hammer and punch, to rotate the brass colored ring clockwise.
Be forewarned that you will unleash about 100 little 1/8" bearings that will hit the floor and run int the corners or floor drains. Putting it back together is an art form unto itself.


My New Winner freewheels have two remover notches and are marked "NWN", if you look carefully...
I've never opened one of these.





Steve in Peoria

Just to clarify the progression of Suntour "Winner" family of freewheels:

1st: "Winner" opened from the rear (which I've never done) and had two notches for removal.

2nd: "New Winner" (bottom picture in [MENTION=113466]steelbikeguy[/MENTION] 's no. 15 post above) which had an adjustable outer race and two notches for removal.

3rd: "Winner Pro" has a gold retaining ring/outer race with reverse threads and four notches for removal. Also has special seals to help keep the bearings and grease clean from contaminates. "Winner Pro" in printed on the retaining ring.

4th: "Winner" (top picture in steelbikeguy 's no. 15 post above was sold at the same time as the "Winner Pro" but has a silver retaining ring/outer race and lacks the seals. Four notches for removal. "Winner" is printed on the retaining ring.

Hope this is helpful. Also just as an FYI, sprockets with splines from the "Perfect" and "Pro Compe" freewheels can be used in the last positions (two largest) on Winners, and the threaded sprockets from "Perfect" and "Pro Compe" freewheels can be used in the middle positions on the Winner family.

I overhauled one of these recently after doing 100 miles out on Cape Cod and MVI. It sounded like it had sand in it and probably did so off it came. It was not much different than other FWs I've done and it was nice that SunTour marked the lock ring CCW to remove (vs CW for most other left hand threaded lock rings).

As to the 100 or so 1/8 ball bearings, that's never really been a problem. The old grease, no matter how bad, usually holds the balls in place until you open the unit and grab them. I always work in a shallow tray (old chinese food container or even the container for a dozen eggs) so those that 'jump out' are contained. If you're worried the FW has NO old lube then drool some motor oil into the back end the day before and that should be enough to ****** the ball's desire to escape from you.

"Assembly is the reverse of disassembly" using fresh grease and dental floss. Final tightening of the upper race and lock ring was a bit touchy NW but much like a hub bearing. Tightening the lock ring changes the fit of the upper race. Iterate it a bit and you'll dial it in. I did find one handy tip. The two notches on the lock ring were shallow and hard to grip. I had a segment of piston ring from an old engine (about 3" OD piston) which was high carbon steel and it arched over the center of the FW to engage those two notches nicely. I could screw the ring off and on with that then tap-tap-tap with a punch for final tightening.

One other idea: On my 6 FW bikes, I find a time each winter to remove the FWs and relube the hub threads. This ensures that they never stay on too long and get hard to remove. That ensures that I don't damage the FW notches with the remover tool - damage from having to apply TOO much force on the 'steering wheel' to get them loose.

FWIW, Use [MENTION=360474]Prowler[/MENTION]'s instructions if you can manage to open it up safely, you will be able to clean everything up properly, inspect the bearings and other parts carefully, then use a good quality grease inside around the bearings. [MENTION=42162]pastorbobnlnh[/MENTION] has posted detailed directions about doing this, and explained why using a good grease is better in the long run over letting oil drip inside. As Bob said, they come from the factory with grease inside, stick with what it was designed to use. Words of wisdom.

Bill

New winner pro went to labyrinth shields on the outsides, then put a lubrication port on it that you could only access
by removing the freewheel from the hub.

Thanks! Very informative... although a tad confusing. Not sure why SunTour felt compelled to use an old model name for the last version of the Winner. Too bad they didn't just append the year of introduction to the "Winner" name, resulting in something like "Winner 87"

Their naming convention for their cogs is about as bad. The cog chart for the New Winner suggests that they chose the names/designation for the cogs so they could spell "ultra" and "extra". Cute, but not helpful.
Here's part of the New Winner chart that shows the arrangements...



a higher resolution version is here:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/3...d89626_o_d.jpg

Fortunately the Winner Pro used a simpler naming convention... A, B, C, ... which conveniently used the same A cogs as the New Winner and ProCompe/Perfect.


Steve in Peoria