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Threadless Conversion Headset

Old 04-21-20, 01:33 PM
  #126  
Flieswowings
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Late to the party

Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I have been slacking and still have not sent more black units to Amazon. Best thing to do for now is to send me a private message and I can get you set up for a direct order. All Amazon shipments are being delayed these days anyway.
I fond myself in the same situation, I'm looking to buy a black Innicycle conversion setup for my Trek 1500 but can only find it in silver. Any idea how I can get my hands on one?
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Old 04-21-20, 08:55 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Flieswowings View Post
I fond myself in the same situation, I'm looking to buy a black Innicycle conversion setup for my Trek 1500 but can only find it in silver. Any idea how I can get my hands on one?
Ok, ok, you all have made it apparent that I really need to restock the black innicycle headset :-)

In the meantime, just send me a PM and I can get you set up with one.
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Old 04-23-20, 07:24 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Ok, ok, you all have made it apparent that I really need to restock the black innicycle headset :-)

In the meantime, just send me a PM and I can get you set up with one.
can you PM me please, its saying because I'm a new user my messaging is restricted.
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Old 04-28-20, 08:54 AM
  #129  
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KFYZPD2

Black innicycle headsets back in stock by May 4, 2020. JIS crown races available in ~4 weeks, no, make that 5-6 based on how everything is going lately.
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Old 05-04-20, 04:52 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by jrg1244 View Post
Hello! I'm thinking of putting the innicycle conversion headset on my Fuji build.... Went to Amazon to purchase and saw that only Silver is available. Any idea when Black will be in stock? Thanks for dreaming this up and making it happen!
Found the black on on Amazon today by searching for "Innicycle". Using it on my 85 Mt Fuji.
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Old 05-04-20, 07:06 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by bmi1965 View Post
Found the black on on Amazon today by searching for "Innicycle". Using it on my 85 Mt Fuji.
Glad you found it! Being a Fuji, does your fork have a JIS-spec 27mm crown race? If so, weíll need to talk about getting you one of the JIS races that I am in the process of producing. That is unless you plan on having yours cut to ISO spec (26.4mm).
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Old 05-28-20, 04:51 PM
  #132  
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Any idea when the black will be back in stock? I had it sitting in my amazon cart for weeks and just waited too long...
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Old 05-28-20, 08:37 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by rhender View Post
Any idea when the black will be back in stock? I had it sitting in my amazon cart for weeks and just waited too long...
Ha, same. I had it held off as a purchase once I hit a weight goal. Went to buy one a couple days ago and cursed my slow metabolic rate!
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Old 05-29-20, 09:46 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by rhender View Post
Any idea when the black will be back in stock? I had it sitting in my amazon cart for weeks and just waited too long...
Send me a PM or email at joe@jjpne.com

Stock of all headsets is pretty limited right now while I work out the details of the next production run. Amazon will not be getting any more black units for some time but I will sell direct until I run out.
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Old 05-29-20, 09:49 AM
  #135  
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For those to whom it matters, JIS-spec crown races are due to arrive in the next week or two. A few of you have requested them and I'll be following up once I have them in hand. I imagine it will take some time to use up the handful I made, but stranger things have happened
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Old 05-29-20, 09:57 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
For those to whom it matters, JIS-spec crown races are due to arrive in the next week or two. A few of you have requested them and I'll be following up once I have them in hand. I imagine it will take some time to use up the handful I made, but stranger things have happened
Awesome.
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Old 05-29-20, 10:30 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Thanks! I have not seen that before and was super excited until I saw that they only offer it in a -7į angle. -17į or it's dead to me

I may be in touch anyway as perhaps they'd consider producing the proper stem angle if I asked nicely enough.
Sweet talk them into a 140 mm 17 deg and Iím ordering! Multiple.
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Old 05-29-20, 08:13 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I've posted this bike elsewhere but thought it would make a good update to this thread as it demonstrate the max stem height one can achieve with an uncut innicycle headset. The Cannondale below has a 40mm clamp height stem and 50mm of spacers below it, using up every available millimeter of steerer tube on the quill portion. The resulting hood and drop heights are very similar to the original bike fitted a quill stem at its max height (see pic below for original bike as purchased).
If you made one with an extra 50mm height any extra unneeded could just be cut off as per current design right? I would like to try one.
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Old 05-29-20, 09:18 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Sweet talk them into a 140 mm 17 deg and Iím ordering! Multiple.
If I do anything with stems, I will be going full custom. I have several ideas for a Ďproperí innicycle stem, just need to get them in CAD. And convince myself itís worth the effort and expense to produce more than one.
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Old 05-29-20, 09:24 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by metalrideroz View Post
If you made one with an extra 50mm height any extra unneeded could just be cut off as per current design right? I would like to try one.
Are you asking for an additional 50mm of height adjustment, for a total of 100mm, or something else?

As currently designed, there is 50mm of extra steerer tube which, if desired, can be trimmed off instead. See pictures of my Trek 660 on page one of this thread for what this looks like.

If you are asking for a special headset with 100mm of adjustment, Iím going to decline. I donít see much of a market for that nor do I trust the quill to steerer engagement to that
much potential leverage. There are quill stems out there that are quite tall and frankly they scare me.
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Old 05-31-20, 09:13 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Glad you found it! Being a Fuji, does your fork have a JIS-spec 27mm crown race? If so, weíll need to talk about getting you one of the JIS races that I am in the process of producing. That is unless you plan on having yours cut to ISO spec (26.4mm).
So installed this weekend. This thing is dope! Such an easy install and finished product looks like it belongs. I had to find another period fork (DB) bc it didnít come with one. Only adjustment was I had to file down the shoulder for the bottom race on the steer tube. After that smooth as silk.
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Old 05-31-20, 09:15 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by bmi1965 View Post
So installed this weekend. This thing is dope! Such an easy install and finished product looks like it belongs. I had to find another period fork (DB) bc it didnít come with one. Only adjustment was I had to file down the shoulder for the bottom race on the steer tube. After that smooth as silk.
Headset cups were tight but went on. Not sure what the size was on the frame though.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:24 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by bmi1965 View Post
So installed this weekend. This thing is dope! Such an easy install and finished product looks like it belongs. I had to find another period fork (DB) bc it didnít come with one. Only adjustment was I had to file down the shoulder for the bottom race on the steer tube. After that smooth as silk.
Originally Posted by bmi1965 View Post
Headset cups were tight but went on. Not sure what the size was on the frame though.
If the fork matched the frame and the crown race on the fork was JIS-spec, chances are the frame is also JIS-spec which would explain the tightness of the cups. Great to hear about another successful innicycle conversion!
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Old 06-01-20, 10:09 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
If the fork matched the frame and the crown race on the fork was JIS-spec, chances are the frame is also JIS-spec which would explain the tightness of the cups. Great to hear about another successful innicycle conversion!
I originally found your product on the OldShovel youtube site. This guy does some pretty cool restomods with vintage mtb's.
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Old 06-02-20, 02:55 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by bmi1965 View Post
I originally found your product on the OldShovel youtube site. This guy does some pretty cool restomods with vintage mtb's.
Thanks for the heads up! That was pretty cool to see and I'd have never known if you didn't mention it. Yet again proves how unimaginative I am in not realizing other potential options for my own product. My only gripe is his use of a tubing cutter on the steerer tube but it seems to have worked ok for him. I'd much prefer the use a hacksaw and proper cutting guide. Using the extra spacer on top of the stem (for future height adjustment options or stem swaps) was a nice touch.

For anyone interested in the video:
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Old 06-10-20, 10:44 PM
  #146  
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Very cool product, would you happen to have figures on hand for how much it would weigh fully cut down?
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Old 06-11-20, 09:26 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Thanks for the heads up! That was pretty cool to see and I'd have never known if you didn't mention it. Yet again proves how unimaginative I am in not realizing other potential options for my own product. My only gripe is his use of a tubing cutter on the steerer tube but it seems to have worked ok for him. I'd much prefer the use a hacksaw and proper cutting guide. Using the extra spacer on top of the stem (for future height adjustment options or stem swaps) was a nice touch.

For anyone interested in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sdjSzAG9lc
Nice work Joe. What's wrong with the pipe cutter, it seems like a clean cutting option? That guy seems to have all of the other tools, I still need proper headset tools.

In general what's the appeal of threadless? It seems you might like it for a more aggressive position? Why would I want it (I typically like bars and saddle even)?

I've read threadless is an inherently better design? I can see the increased stiffness, easy removal/Rinko, and multiple stem option (and availability of new stems) benefits ... would a con be height adjustability? Looks might be another, if you are a stickler for classic & vintage.

Is the Technomic one of the quills that scares you? What about quills too far down (or up?) in the steerer, I read in another thread steerer tube walls are only appropriate for the quill wedge in a particular region of the steerer, too high or too low (or maybe just one of those), could be dangerous?

Where can we see the thru axle project, and any other works you might have going?

Last edited by specialmonkey; 06-11-20 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-11-20, 09:52 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
In general what's the appeal of threadless? It seems you might like it for a more aggressive position? Why would I want it (I typically like bars and saddle even)?

I've read threadless is an inherently better design? I can see the increased stiffness, easy removal/Rinko, and multiple stem option (and availability of new stems) benefits ... would a con be height adjustability? Looks might be another, if you are a stickler for classic & vintage.
If I remember right, Joe built it so that he could get lower and cleaner than any current quill adapter that you'd just put into a threaded headset (lighter too). I bought one because I want to get one of the Cigne stems from Velo Orange and you need a taller clamping surface than is available on most quilled insertion adapters. And it just looks so much nicer than most of those (most people who care about looks - on a previous drop bar converted mtb commuting bike, looks wasn't something I cared about - try to cover the gap between the clamp area on the adapter and the headset with spacers, but many adapters don't allow that and the changing diameter means they rattle a bit). And I needed a new headset anyway. And I wanted to try out a new toy.
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Old 06-11-20, 12:07 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by honeybunner View Post
Very cool product, would you happen to have figures on hand for how much it would weigh fully cut down?
Trimming the steerer tube portion down to its minimum height will shave 35-40 grams off the weight depending on the height of your stem (typically 38-45mm). To further reduce weight, you can also then trim the unused portion of the steel stud (on underside of the top cap going to the cone wedge) to remove another ~20 grams. Youíll want to paint the cut face to keep it from rusting or at least coat it with grease.

So starting from 265 grams, you should be at 205-210 grams once cut down.
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Old 06-11-20, 01:43 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
Nice work Joe. What's wrong with the pipe cutter, it seems like a clean cutting option? That guy seems to have all of the other tools, I still need proper headset tools.
I love a good set of questions! My issue with the tubing/pipe cutter is that those work by essentially 'flowing' the material away from the 'cutting' blade. I say 'cutting' because no actual material is removed. It all goes somewhere and with a tube as thick as the innicycle steerer, it is a substantial amount that gets pushed in toward the ID. After using a tubing cutter, you'll have neither a flat cut surface nor a clean ID so a decent amount of filing will need to be done to get the top cap to fit properly. With a hacksaw blade and cutting guide, a quick deburr on the cut edges is all that is required.

Proper headset tools can be easily improvised with some threaded rod and either some washers or even sockets. Ideally, the cups are pressed in by only making contact with the flat surface under the bearings, especially on the upper cup. There is a small feature on its upper edge that helps keep water/dirt from getting inside and it can be easily distorted by too much pressure. Can it be used to press the cups in? Probably. If I had my way, would it be? No.



Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
In general what's the appeal of threadless? It seems you might like it for a more aggressive position? Why would I want it (I typically like bars and saddle even)?
The reason I wanted threadless was for the handlebar options combined with the fact that most threadless stems do a better job of clamping handlebars than quill stems do. There are 31.8mm quill stems available but they are limited in size, they aren't cheap, their aesthetics are lacking (IMO), and I don't fully trust how they clamp the handlebars (one in particular). I could typically accept one or two of those, but all four had me searching for a better option. There are 26.0mm modern-style handlebars, too, but again I've had issues with that clamp size (threadless stem) and there aren't a ton of options.

As I was designing a completely need headset, I took that opportunity to allow for running the handlebars as low as possible, given the trend toward shallow drops these days. I found that it worked well for me on the bike I was building in the process. Now, you like many others, want to run the bars quite a bit higher. The nice thing about threadless for that is you have quite a few stem choices (length and angle), and should you decide on certain days you don't want the bars way up, you can quickly swap stems or flip your existing stem to lower them.

Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
I've read threadless is an inherently better design? I can see the increased stiffness, easy removal/Rinko, and multiple stem option (and availability of new stems) benefits ... would a con be height adjustability? Looks might be another, if you are a stickler for classic & vintage.
The only way threadless is inherently better is stiffness. There's no doubting that larger diameter threadless stems are going to flex less than quill stems, especially for a given weight. You mention height adjustability as a con, but that depends on the specifics. For instance, some threaded forks have such a short steerer that you essentially get no height adjustment with a quill stem (think 50cm or smaller frames). Standard threadless requires resetting bearing preload for any stem adjustment but the way the innicycle adapter works, you only set the bearings once just like a threaded system. You are free to adjust the stem up and down, flip, or swap without ever needing to touch the bearing preload.

I'm working on a more classic stem option to pair with the innicycle headset. I recognize that many modern stems don't look quite right on a skinny tube frame.

Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
Is the Technomic one of the quills that scares you? What about quills too far down (or up?) in the steerer, I read in another thread steerer tube walls are only appropriate for the quill wedge in a particular region of the steerer, too high or too low (or maybe just one of those), could be dangerous?
Technomics are pretty tall but I've seen worse. Too high is definitely bad because you lose surface contact. Too low and you can run into the butted (small inner diameter) portion of the steerer tube and not be able to properly anchor the stem (as referenced in my comment above about small frames).

Originally Posted by specialmonkey View Post
Where can we see the thru axle project, and any other works you might have going?
This story on that project was recently posted: https://cyclingtips.com/2020/06/mode...with-forkmods/

It all started here: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...p?f=1&t=149055

The only other current item of note is the short pull arms for TRP HY/RD calipers that I created for my disc bike with pre-hydro Campy levers. If you're bored: Chinabomb Disc Brake Road Bike Build
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