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Threadless Conversion Headset

Old 11-28-19, 06:03 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
204 (steerer) - 169 (headtube) = 35 (good to go)

35 - 26 (thread length) = 5 (again good to go)

So Iíll be honest. I love math, but most people donít share my warm feelings toward numbers. I am going to work on a printable gauge/graphic that will make all of this a visual exercise rather than a mathematical one. Look forward to a sample or two for approval from the BF panel prior to a wider launch to the public (Amazon).
Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply.
Just want to double check that when 35 - 26 = 9 it is still good to go (as it is less than the magic 16mm requirement)

A simple diagram of a head tube and steerer with dimensions labelled (A, B & C etc) plus a simple equation and requirements would be great.

For example,
Steerer Length (A) - Head Tube Length (B) = Excess Steerer Length (C), where (C) must be between 27mm and 45mm.

Excess Steerer Length (C) - Steerer Thread (D) = Excess Steerer Non Thread Length (E), where (E) must be less than 16mm.

I'll leave the diagram up to you 😀
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Old 11-28-19, 08:20 AM
  #102  
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I've now used 3 of these fine items. I've never measured anything. On one bike, where the steerer was easily 2" too long (fork was from a bigger frame), I used a hacksaw and cleaned up the threads. The general impression I have, is if the fork fits before, it will fit after. One of my friends rides beautiful steel classics, but he has to use a quill adapter and modern stem unless he can find a 90-degree 120 or 130 quill in the right size for the only bars he uses. The Innicycle would look better, in my opinion, and he'd be hooked (if he ever could kiss those Campy headsets goodbye).

On a side note, I've since "sort of" convinced a friend to go with a Y-Foil as a project. The forks are proprietary unless you really know what you're doing, as the bolt-crown distance is about 7/8" longer than most forks. She (I) did not want to be limited to a quill stem on such a unique frame, and let's face it, most of the quill adapters look like an ostrich neck once a stem is mounted. I'm lobbying heavily for an Innicycle adapter for her build, and using my Y-Foil as an example. I've even offered to buy the Innicycle for her, and keep it if it doesn't work out.
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Old 11-28-19, 10:13 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by garagetuner View Post
Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply.
Just want to double check that when 35 - 26 = 9 it is still good to go (as it is less than the magic 16mm requirement)

A simple diagram of a head tube and steerer with dimensions labelled (A, B & C etc) plus a simple equation and requirements would be great.

For example,
Steerer Length (A) - Head Tube Length (B) = Excess Steerer Length (C), where (C) must be between 27mm and 45mm.

Excess Steerer Length (C) - Steerer Thread (D) = Excess Steerer Non Thread Length (E), where (E) must be less than 16mm.

I'll leave the diagram up to you 😀
Ha! I posted that having just woken up and clearly didn't proofread. The requirement is for the threads to end no more than 16mm above the headtube so whether the correct math is 5 or 9mm, you are still good to go

What the <16mm above the headtube is ensuring is the upper race can screw down the steerer tube far enough to contact the upper bearing. The <45mm above the headtube ensures that the steerer tube doesn't bottom out internally inside of the quill/upper race portion. I could only accommodate a certain amount of steerer tube inside of that area before I start infringing on how short the unit could be trimmed for those wanting to run slammed stems with short-ish steerer clamp areas.

As RobbieTunes alludes to, the measurements I selected also (not coincidentally) accommodate most frame/forks without any modification. It is only when a thick spacer has been installed with the original headset (for a touring bike or similar) that the steerer will be too long to work unmodified (see Rocket-Sauce 's posts).

RobbieTunes I'm loving the Y-Foil with innicycle conversion. It just looks 'right'. Keep pushing that friend! I think I know what my next vintage build is going to be...
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Old 11-29-19, 07:14 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Ha! I posted that having just woken up and clearly didn't proofread. The requirement is for the threads to end no more than 16mm above the headtube so whether the correct math is 5 or 9mm, you are still good to go

What the <16mm above the headtube is ensuring is the upper race can screw down the steerer tube far enough to contact the upper bearing. The <45mm above the headtube ensures that the steerer tube doesn't bottom out internally inside of the quill/upper race portion. I could only accommodate a certain amount of steerer tube inside of that area before I start infringing on how short the unit could be trimmed for those wanting to run slammed stems with short-ish steerer clamp areas.
No problem

Thanks for the confirmation.

An ordered has been placed
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Old 12-01-19, 10:40 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by garagetuner View Post
No problem

Thanks for the confirmation.

An ordered has been placed
Thank you very much! Feel free to post any questions/comments/concerns in this thread. Looking forward to seeing pics of at least the finished build, if not some in-process shots as well.
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Old 12-01-19, 11:45 AM
  #106  
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From reading up above, it looks like the simplest way to use one of these on a JIS fork is to find an old bike shop with the ability to turn the race down to ISO diameter, right?
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Old 12-01-19, 05:48 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
From reading up above, it looks like the simplest way to use one of these on a JIS fork is to find an old bike shop with the ability to turn the race down to ISO diameter, right?
Yes. I still have not tried to do it, due to lack of interest, but it should also be fairly simple to ream out the ID to JIS spec. The advantage of cutting fork crown down to ISO spec is that you wonít have to worry about it if you ever need to replace it or swap it for something else.
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Old 12-02-19, 05:12 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
From reading up above, it looks like the simplest way to use one of these on a JIS fork is to find an old bike shop with the ability to turn the race down to ISO diameter, right?
Yes, because filing takes a long damn time.
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Old 12-02-19, 06:28 AM
  #109  
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It would be very helpful if the units came with even a basic diagram of how it works, or with some description of what goes where. Once I had that "oh-now-I-get-it" moment and understood that the top piece replaces the threaded top race and lock nut on a conventional threaded headset *and* become a sort of false head tube extension, it all went together super easily.
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Old 12-02-19, 06:32 AM
  #110  
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By the way, I LOVE this headset. It is one of those products that I just can't believe haven't been done before. In hindsight, it seems so obvious.

Also, it is SUPER high quality.

Will definitely buy again.
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Old 12-03-19, 12:10 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce View Post
It would be very helpful if the units came with even a basic diagram of how it works, or with some description of what goes where. Once I had that "oh-now-I-get-it" moment and understood that the top piece replaces the threaded top race and lock nut on a conventional threaded headset *and* become a sort of false head tube extension, it all went together super easily.
Perhaps this is just the diagram that I need to create to help explain just how this thing works. Like an A + B + C = D illustration (upper race + lock nut + threadless adapter = innicycle upper subassembly)

Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce View Post
By the way, I LOVE this headset. It is one of those products that I just can't believe haven't been done before. In hindsight, it seems so obvious.
Haha! I think that's why I love product design so much. When you have that moment where it all becomes so clear how to solve the problem and everything just seems to fall into place...it's kinda like the same feeling I get out on the open road on a bike!

Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce View Post
Also, it is SUPER high quality.

Will definitely buy again.
Thanks, glad you feel it's money well spent.
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Old 12-03-19, 06:27 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce View Post
It would be very helpful if the units came with even a basic diagram of how it works, or with some description of what goes where. Once I had that "oh-now-I-get-it" moment and understood that the top piece replaces the threaded top race and lock nut on a conventional threaded headset *and* become a sort of false head tube extension, it all went together super easily.
Half the fun, right? Don't ask me why I cut my steerer too short, on both the fork and the Innicycle. I had to buy a smaller bike frame to justify myself.
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Old 12-09-19, 12:48 PM
  #113  
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Trimming the steerer tube upper portion:

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Old 12-26-19, 11:47 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Thank you very much! Feel free to post any questions/comments/concerns in this thread. Looking forward to seeing pics of at least the finished build, if not some in-process shots as well.
The headset arrived before Christmas. As others have mentioned, a high quality well designed product.
Thanks for the after sales support as well.
6 months into the project, I am still (slowly) collecting parts! 😀
Photos will follow at some point 👌
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Old 12-29-19, 09:31 PM
  #115  
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So happy I found this thread. This is the exact solution I was looking for. Just ordered a silver one on Amazon!
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Old 01-15-20, 09:03 AM
  #116  
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Innicycle adapter on a 1978 vintage Japanese build
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Old 01-16-20, 07:51 AM
  #117  
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zenolee What's the rest of the build going to be? Which stem is that? It appears like a nice match for the frame tubing size-wise.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:16 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I'd say it creates a business opportunity, one that I plan to address once I get this headset moving more! I'm willing to talk now to anyone who wants something sooner, just be warned that the price will reflect the prototype nature of the stem.
belated followup but you'd be a good candidate to be a US importer of this stem

https://www.schindelhauerbikes.com/e...ries/Stem.html
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Old 01-16-20, 02:50 PM
  #119  
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Ooh, I find those attractive.
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Old 01-17-20, 08:11 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by AlanKHG View Post
belated followup but you'd be a good candidate to be a US importer of this stem

https://www.schindelhauerbikes.com/e...ries/Stem.html
Thanks! I have not seen that before and was super excited until I saw that they only offer it in a -7į angle. -17į or it's dead to me

I may be in touch anyway as perhaps they'd consider producing the proper stem angle if I asked nicely enough.
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Old 01-17-20, 05:03 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
zenolee What's the rest of the build going to be? Which stem is that? It appears like a nice match for the frame tubing size-wise.
It's a SimWorks Nitto Wendy Stem 60mm

I'm building a 650B conversion from a 1978 Zebrakenko. Should be about another month before I dial in everything properly. Campy mafac style brake levers, Weinmann centerpulls, Rene Herse Crankset 44/26, 11-34 cassette. Rims and high flange hub are Grand Bois. I have a Shutter Precision SV-9 dynamo hub. I'm making this Rinko compatible with clamp on cable stops on the top tube, downtube shifters, and eventually Rinko fenders. Your adapter was a big part of the Rinko compatibility because now I can remove the handlebar with just an Allen key and a twist with the hand

Last edited by zenolee; 01-17-20 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 01-17-20, 09:50 PM
  #122  
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Time to get another..

I was gifted a frameset, and whether I use the OEM fork or a carbon, it's Innicycle to hold it together. Ordering soon.
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Old 01-19-20, 11:46 PM
  #123  
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Innicycle headset not screwing onto fork

Hi all,

I received one of these very cool headsets a couple of weeks ago, and have since been unable to figure out how to install it ... initially the main part (with the 'steerer tube' section) wouldn't screw in past a half turn or so. I had the fork faced and retapped which improved things to about one and half turns, and then removed the quill stem wedge that was stuck inside it, which again improved things. I can now screw the headset on about two and half turns. There is a tricky spot every turn, but nothing on the fork or headset threads indicates where/why this is. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?

If it is unfixable, I could always trim the fork steerer to be short enough to only require two and half turns, but this is not ideal.

Thanks in advance for any help
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Old 01-20-20, 10:22 AM
  #124  
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zenolee Very cool. I learned a new term: Rinko compatible. Do you plan to remove the handlebars from the stem or the stem from the adapter? Especially in the latter case it's a new-to-me 'excuse' for an innicycle conversion. You don't need to worry about resetting handlebar angle or messing with threadless headset preload. Or dealing with a greased up quill stem wedge and height adjustment.

RobbieTunes If we ever get the chance to meet in person, beers, snacks, dinner, whatever. It's on me.
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Old 01-20-20, 10:33 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by CohenS View Post
Hi all,

I received one of these very cool headsets a couple of weeks ago, and have since been unable to figure out how to install it ... initially the main part (with the 'steerer tube' section) wouldn't screw in past a half turn or so. I had the fork faced and retapped which improved things to about one and half turns, and then removed the quill stem wedge that was stuck inside it, which again improved things. I can now screw the headset on about two and half turns. There is a tricky spot every turn, but nothing on the fork or headset threads indicates where/why this is. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?

If it is unfixable, I could always trim the fork steerer to be short enough to only require two and half turns, but this is not ideal.

Thanks in advance for any help
Glad you found me here and posted this publicly so that it can potentially help others out in a similar situation.

First and foremost, please don't trim your steerer tube to 'fix' the issue! I'm certain there's a better way.

I have encountered slightly tight fits when installing the upper portion resulting from either a. some corrosion inside the steerer tube and/or b. some eccentricity between the external threads and the internal bore of the steerer tube. The quill portion of the innicycle conversion is sized just under the internal diameter of an ISO steerer tube. Most quill stems are a surprisingly loose fit in comparison as they are left in the forged state which can't hold tight enough tolerances to produce a snug fit. Cinelli 1A stems, from which I borrowed a few details, are machined in this area resulting in a precise fit to the steerer tube. But just like an innicycle headset, this means that the ID of the steerer must be completely free of corrosion, and at least until I can prove this isn't an issue, concentric to the external threads (only applicable to innicycle).

That you previously had a wedge stuck in the steerer tube tells me that there is a good chance there is significant corrosion inside of it. I'd start with some heavy duty Scotch Brite and see if you can clean that up. Progress to sandpaper only if necessary to treat some particularly bad spots. Get it clean and recheck the fit. If it's still snug, clamp a threadless stem on the innicycle tube portion and see if it turns with a slightly more torque. Don't force it but perhaps it just needs to overcome just a bit of tightness in a spot or two.

Looking forward to getting this sorted out.
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