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Threadless Conversion Headset

Old 01-15-20, 09:03 AM
  #101  
zenolee
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Innicycle adapter on a 1978 vintage Japanese build
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Old 01-16-20, 07:51 AM
  #102  
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zenolee What's the rest of the build going to be? Which stem is that? It appears like a nice match for the frame tubing size-wise.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:16 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I'd say it creates a business opportunity, one that I plan to address once I get this headset moving more! I'm willing to talk now to anyone who wants something sooner, just be warned that the price will reflect the prototype nature of the stem.
belated followup but you'd be a good candidate to be a US importer of this stem

https://www.schindelhauerbikes.com/e...ries/Stem.html
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Old 01-16-20, 02:50 PM
  #104  
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Ooh, I find those attractive.
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Old 01-17-20, 08:11 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by AlanKHG View Post
belated followup but you'd be a good candidate to be a US importer of this stem

https://www.schindelhauerbikes.com/e...ries/Stem.html
Thanks! I have not seen that before and was super excited until I saw that they only offer it in a -7° angle. -17° or it's dead to me

I may be in touch anyway as perhaps they'd consider producing the proper stem angle if I asked nicely enough.
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Old 01-17-20, 05:03 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
zenolee What's the rest of the build going to be? Which stem is that? It appears like a nice match for the frame tubing size-wise.
It's a SimWorks Nitto Wendy Stem 60mm

I'm building a 650B conversion from a 1978 Zebrakenko. Should be about another month before I dial in everything properly. Campy mafac style brake levers, Weinmann centerpulls, Rene Herse Crankset 44/26, 11-34 cassette. Rims and high flange hub are Grand Bois. I have a Shutter Precision SV-9 dynamo hub. I'm making this Rinko compatible with clamp on cable stops on the top tube, downtube shifters, and eventually Rinko fenders. Your adapter was a big part of the Rinko compatibility because now I can remove the handlebar with just an Allen key and a twist with the hand

Last edited by zenolee; 01-17-20 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 01-19-20, 11:46 PM
  #107  
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Innicycle headset not screwing onto fork

Hi all,

I received one of these very cool headsets a couple of weeks ago, and have since been unable to figure out how to install it ... initially the main part (with the 'steerer tube' section) wouldn't screw in past a half turn or so. I had the fork faced and retapped which improved things to about one and half turns, and then removed the quill stem wedge that was stuck inside it, which again improved things. I can now screw the headset on about two and half turns. There is a tricky spot every turn, but nothing on the fork or headset threads indicates where/why this is. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?

If it is unfixable, I could always trim the fork steerer to be short enough to only require two and half turns, but this is not ideal.

Thanks in advance for any help
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Old 01-20-20, 10:22 AM
  #108  
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zenolee Very cool. I learned a new term: Rinko compatible. Do you plan to remove the handlebars from the stem or the stem from the adapter? Especially in the latter case it's a new-to-me 'excuse' for an innicycle conversion. You don't need to worry about resetting handlebar angle or messing with threadless headset preload. Or dealing with a greased up quill stem wedge and height adjustment.

RobbieTunes If we ever get the chance to meet in person, beers, snacks, dinner, whatever. It's on me.
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Old 01-20-20, 10:33 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by CohenS View Post
Hi all,

I received one of these very cool headsets a couple of weeks ago, and have since been unable to figure out how to install it ... initially the main part (with the 'steerer tube' section) wouldn't screw in past a half turn or so. I had the fork faced and retapped which improved things to about one and half turns, and then removed the quill stem wedge that was stuck inside it, which again improved things. I can now screw the headset on about two and half turns. There is a tricky spot every turn, but nothing on the fork or headset threads indicates where/why this is. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?

If it is unfixable, I could always trim the fork steerer to be short enough to only require two and half turns, but this is not ideal.

Thanks in advance for any help
Glad you found me here and posted this publicly so that it can potentially help others out in a similar situation.

First and foremost, please don't trim your steerer tube to 'fix' the issue! I'm certain there's a better way.

I have encountered slightly tight fits when installing the upper portion resulting from either a. some corrosion inside the steerer tube and/or b. some eccentricity between the external threads and the internal bore of the steerer tube. The quill portion of the innicycle conversion is sized just under the internal diameter of an ISO steerer tube. Most quill stems are a surprisingly loose fit in comparison as they are left in the forged state which can't hold tight enough tolerances to produce a snug fit. Cinelli 1A stems, from which I borrowed a few details, are machined in this area resulting in a precise fit to the steerer tube. But just like an innicycle headset, this means that the ID of the steerer must be completely free of corrosion, and at least until I can prove this isn't an issue, concentric to the external threads (only applicable to innicycle).

That you previously had a wedge stuck in the steerer tube tells me that there is a good chance there is significant corrosion inside of it. I'd start with some heavy duty Scotch Brite and see if you can clean that up. Progress to sandpaper only if necessary to treat some particularly bad spots. Get it clean and recheck the fit. If it's still snug, clamp a threadless stem on the innicycle tube portion and see if it turns with a slightly more torque. Don't force it but perhaps it just needs to overcome just a bit of tightness in a spot or two.

Looking forward to getting this sorted out.
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Old 01-21-20, 04:13 AM
  #110  
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Concentric threads

joejack951 RobbieTunes Thank you for the help on this!

There was a small amount of corrosion inside the fork steerer tube, but none close enough to the thread end that I could feel it with my index finger (almost twice as long as the section that goes inside the steerer). I cleaned it out with a rust remover (that I have used to great effect on the same frame) and a rag anyway. I also ran a threaded headset locknut over the threads and found no roughness at the level that the innicycle headset was binding at. There was a little a bit lower but that was sorted out.

It is now turning 4 1/2 turns (1 more than it was, I got it wrong in the original post) and binding at the same spot every rotation. The binding gets worse as it goes in further, to the point where I can't turn it anymore and I am worried about damaging the aluminium threads in the headset (I haven't used a stem for extra leverage yet).

...now for the good bit ... joejack951 I think you are right that the problem is a concentric steerer tube. The wall of the steerer tube looks slightly thinner on one side, though it's hard to tell because of the thread starting point ... however calipers confirm this hypothesis ... the wall of the steerer tube ranges in thickness from 1.58-1.96mm! Do you think this is enough to make a difference to the fit, or do you reckon that the problem lies elsewhere?

Thanks again for the help!
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Old 01-21-20, 08:52 AM
  #111  
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CohenS That amount of eccentricity could certainly be the cause. There is some wiggle room between the components being fit together (threads of innicycle, steerer tube, and innicycle quill) but not much. Nominal steerer tube thickness should be 1.59mm so those high spots at 1.96mm are the issue. I'd suggest the following:

1. See if there's some obvious burr causing the high spot and do you best to remove/minimize it. Recheck fit.
2. If it's still binding, you have my permission to clamp a stem on (down near the base so as to grab the upper race along with the main quill) and add a little more torque. If it rips it apart, I'm to blame and will replace it with something that we collectively decide will work (modified in some way) or refund you if there's no clear path forward.
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Old 01-21-20, 02:43 PM
  #112  
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Thanks joejack951. The problem is not with a burr inside the steerer tube. More than half of the steerer tube is at least 1.8mm thick, so it just comes down to badly manufactured fork. Thank you for the offer to replace it if the threads are stripped. I haven't actually installed the headset yet, but once I paint my frame and install the cups i'll use a stem to try to set the preload and update you.
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Old 01-22-20, 05:13 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
zenolee Very cool. I learned a new term: Rinko compatible. Do you plan to remove the handlebars from the stem or the stem from the adapter? Especially in the latter case it's a new-to-me 'excuse' for an innicycle conversion. You don't need to worry about resetting handlebar angle or messing with threadless headset preload. Or dealing with a greased up quill stem wedge and height adjustment.

RobbieTunes If we ever get the chance to meet in person, beers, snacks, dinner, whatever. It's on me.
I plan on removing the fork from the adapter. Once the adapter bolt is loose, I just have to twist the bottom wheel and separate the fork steerer from the adapter.

If you haven't heard of rinko, I've attached a PDF document I found online on how to Rinko
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Old 01-29-20, 10:08 PM
  #114  
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joejack951 I just installed the headset, and with a little extra leverage from attaching a stem it went on no worries! Thanks for all the help. Full build pictures coming soon!
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Old 01-30-20, 12:02 PM
  #115  
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zenolee Interesting. I had no idea this existed. You'll want to make sure the cone wedge is well greased and perhaps have a solid 'tool' on hand (mallet, block of wood, shoe?) to whack the top cap in order to dislodge the wedge when you go to remove the upper portion. I like that it fits tightly in the tapered region of the quill and similarly the quill is a tight fit into the steerer, but at the same time it makes removal a little more difficult.

RobbieTunes Thanks, again!! I love the term 'Carbonated' in this context. I need to finish building more black units and get them over to Amazon...

CohenS I was prepared for the worst but that's great news. Looking forward to pictures.
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Old 02-15-20, 01:14 AM
  #116  
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Innicycle touring build is now finished. So far the Innicycle is holding up great, although it would have been really helpful to have an extra 100mm or so of steerer in order to get the bars up high enough with a regular stem. I instead resorted to the Velo Orange Cigne stem to jack the bars up nice and high, which worked out okay, if a little wacky.




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Old 02-15-20, 08:46 AM
  #117  
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CohenS Funny how things turn out, when I conceived of this headset my main focus was performance and aesthetics: lightweight, stiff, losing that ugly locknut, lowest possible stem height. As it turns out, you like many others are going the complete opposite direction with it, using it to gain height presumably without giving up much, if any, stiffness versus a shorter quill and definitely gaining stiffness over an extended quill. It's something I can consider for that future if that trend continues.

A parallel to this (and a plug for my other project) is that the fork thru axle conversion kits I created for the purpose of using higher end 12mm-only wheels on older 15mm forks has found its way onto many cross/gravel builds as a way of adapting 12mm-only dynamo hubs to forks of all sorts, including Lauf Grits. Definitely not what I had in mind but I'm enjoying making things possible for people when there was no prior option.

P.S. You'll need to link to your pictures some way other than from Google Drive. Flickr works well for me but there are plenty of other free options, too.
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Old 02-17-20, 05:25 PM
  #118  
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I'm waiting for my fork to be finished, then will finish my latest bike using the Innicycle. I've moved away from the slammed look, partly because I've moved to a smaller frame, and partly because i don't ride the drops as much, sitting up a bit more these days.

The use of modern stems on my C&V "hot rods" sort of drives and compliments the use of modern groups, along with carbon seat posts etc.

Aa a result, I can scrape 3-4 lbs from these steel platforms and get these old gems to approach their potential.

Plus, people think they're cool.
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Old 02-18-20, 04:50 PM
  #119  
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Fork from a 53cm bike, used on a 54cm bike with the Innicycle.
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Old 04-16-20, 07:31 AM
  #120  
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Hello! I'm thinking of putting the innicycle conversion headset on my Fuji build.... Went to Amazon to purchase and saw that only Silver is available. Any idea when Black will be in stock? Thanks for dreaming this up and making it happen!
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Old 04-16-20, 06:05 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by jrg1244 View Post
Hello! I'm thinking of putting the innicycle conversion headset on my Fuji build.... Went to Amazon to purchase and saw that only Silver is available. Any idea when Black will be in stock? Thanks for dreaming this up and making it happen!
I have been slacking and still have not sent more black units to Amazon. Best thing to do for now is to send me a private message and I can get you set up for a direct order. All Amazon shipments are being delayed these days anyway.
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Old 04-16-20, 06:09 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I have been slacking and still have not sent more black units to Amazon. Best thing to do for now is to send me a private message and I can get you set up for a direct order. All Amazon shipments are being delayed these days anyway.
How about cup size? Fuji would be JIS?
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Old 04-16-20, 08:56 PM
  #123  
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You mean race size? I've got a JIS fork that I need to find someone to grind down to ISO so that I can use the innicycle. Not sure whether I'll bother trying to get the headtube reamed or not.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:13 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
You mean race size? I've got a JIS fork that I need to find someone to grind down to ISO so that I can use the innicycle. Not sure whether I'll bother trying to get the headtube reamed or not.
According to this: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/...eaded-jis.html

...you shouldn’t have to ream the headtube. I can modify an inni crown race for you to avoid messing with the fork.
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Old 04-17-20, 07:04 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I can modify an inni crown race for you to avoid messing with the fork.
Oh wow, I didn't know that was an option. I should totally have contacted you earlier. Didn't occur to me that you could modify the crown race.
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