Restoration efforts
06-07-18 | 09:12 PM
#26
Thrifty Bill
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
So I have an 83 Raleigh touring 18 that was gifted to me. My original idea was to try and faithfully restore it to original. Also thought about updating to today’s standards. My question is, which route would you all go? I’ve tried to contact Raleigh and haven’t received an answer yet (3 days). This bike rides so nice, but would love me some sti brifters and some featherweight wheels, to start. Not at 10 posts yet, pics coming soon.
I think those DT shifter bosses on your bike are obsolete and unique. You are going to have to do some grinding to make a change to them. Much easier to stick with what you have.
Those old canti brakes can provide excellent stopping power, properly adjusted. Its a touring bike, so it was designed to stop an average rider with a lot of heavy gear packed on the bike.
Last edited by wrk101; 06-07-18 at 09:18 PM.
06-08-18 | 12:44 AM
#27
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But, maybe I have it backwards.
06-08-18 | 04:31 AM
#29
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
Does it look like the straddle cables on the OP's Raleigh bike are way too long? If I undertand the geometry, that will result in a real lot of cable pull for not much pad movement. If the pads are in contact with the rims and you've got lots of lever movement left, you can stop those rims. But, if you run out of lever, it could be exciting.
But, maybe I have it backwards.
But, maybe I have it backwards.
Also, get some Kool stop brake pads. The brakes will work then. I wouldn't do anything else to that bike except get some decent tires. Modern tires are better. Knobbies suck unless you ride in mud or sand all the time.
Cool bike BTW. Really doesn't need anything other than brake adjustement, pads and tires, IMO.
06-08-18 | 05:27 AM
#30
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
Not sure how to quote, but Dave the golden boy, you are right on point with the direction I have in my head. As she’s gonna probably see a bit of gravel, the 3 pulley seems like the best and most unique choice. As for the bar end versus down tube shifters, I’m interested to see how I’d like that.
06-08-18 | 06:11 AM
#31
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From: Niagara Region
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500, Miele Touring and Batavus Pro
If you do decide to pursue some of the upgrades suggested here, look to see if there is a bike co-op near where you are. That might be a source for inexpensive period parts (such as a matching RD). Alternatively you can post a WTB ad on the for sale forum forr hard to find components. Prices here can be quite reasonable.
Throw a small toolset in your vehicle. If you see a trashed bike either grab it and take home or take off what you need. I recently stripped off a set of fenders rushing desperately as a garbage truck advanced down the street.
Throw a small toolset in your vehicle. If you see a trashed bike either grab it and take home or take off what you need. I recently stripped off a set of fenders rushing desperately as a garbage truck advanced down the street.
06-08-18 | 11:22 AM
#32
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No, not backwards. That's correct. They are really way too long, though it wasn't that unusual at the time. No wonder they won't stop a feather. I suggest trying to find some shorter straddle cables. Mechanical advantage is very low when they are that long. A little tricky to change those since they are the fixed at both ends type. I'd suggest the OP get some dia compe or similar barrel stops and make custom straddle cables. Old ROT was to make a 90º angle between straddle cable and imaginary line from brake pivot to where the straddle cable connects.
Also, get some Kool stop brake pads. The brakes will work then. I wouldn't do anything else to that bike except get some decent tires. Modern tires are better. Knobbies suck unless you ride in mud or sand all the time.
Cool bike BTW. Really doesn't need anything other than brake adjustement, pads and tires, IMO.
Also, get some Kool stop brake pads. The brakes will work then. I wouldn't do anything else to that bike except get some decent tires. Modern tires are better. Knobbies suck unless you ride in mud or sand all the time.
Cool bike BTW. Really doesn't need anything other than brake adjustement, pads and tires, IMO.
On the Miyata, I installed new Dia Compe pads and they work reel well.
I agree that the Raleigh in this thread doesn''t need much to make it a great riding bike. Maybe some 28 or 32 mm Panaracer Pasela tires.
06-09-18 | 01:06 PM
#33
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From: Louisville, KY
Not sure how to quote, but Dave the golden boy, you are right on point with the direction I have in my head. As she’s gonna probably see a bit of gravel, the 3 pulley seems like the best and most unique choice. As for the bar end versus down tube shifters, I’m interested to see how I’d like that.
06-09-18 | 01:57 PM
#35
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
[MENTION=484113]Redneckroofer[/MENTION]
OK- to Business.
First- you have the stock front and rear racks- REALLY good- those are impossible to find.
From where I'm sitting- the bike looks to be in nice shape. For real- to be a good rider- it doesn't need much beyond fresh grease in the bottom bracket, wheels, and headset. Maybe new cables and housing; probably a new saddle. I love the Brooks Cambium (around $130). That's just me though.
If'n it were me- and I wanted to do a sort of "period" upgrade of the bike- I'd keep the wheels. I'd get a set of cable stops (maybe $20) and score a set of Suntour bar end shifters (maybe $50). I'd replace the rear derailleur with something cool and super functional. To be "period" I would use a 3 pulley Suntour XC(maybe $50). To make it a little later I'd get a Suntour XC Pro or XC Comp or an M730-M735 Deore XT (maybe $60+). I'd want to get a matching front derailleur... just because I'm all obsessive compulsive matchy-matchy like that (maybe $30). Again, if this were me, I'd also replace the brakes with some M732 XT or MT-60 MT-62 cantilevers. IMO- they're much better brakes-(probably the best wide profile cantilevers ever) they're seriously pretty much the same- the only thing that's seems to be different is the stamping on the back (I just bought a set for $40).
If you want to have indexing- having a 6 speed rear end makes things pretty cool- the spacing is the same between Suntour's Accushift 6 speed and Shimano's SIS indexing. For indexing- you just have to use Suntour shifters with an index compatible Suntour derailleur and Shimano shifters with Shimano derailleurs.
If you wanted to really modernize the bike- it's going to cost a bunch of money- a good wheelset (do the 36 spoke wheels) and if'n it were me- I'd go with XT or XTR derailleurs and hubs, Dura Ace bar end shifters Ultegra cassette- Not skimping on anything. About 2 years ago I went sort of this route with my Trek 720- I collected parts for a few years and still dropped an unbelievable amount of money building it up- but it's a SERIOUSLY badass bike.
IMG_2377 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_0616 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_1715 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_1703 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
I'd say to remember that it's built with thicker- stiffer tubing- it's got a longer wheelbase- it's never going to be a weight weenie, ultralight bike- It would be folly to attempt to do that to this bike. IMO- it'll be great with an 8-9 or 10 speed rear end-
OK- to Business.
First- you have the stock front and rear racks- REALLY good- those are impossible to find.
From where I'm sitting- the bike looks to be in nice shape. For real- to be a good rider- it doesn't need much beyond fresh grease in the bottom bracket, wheels, and headset. Maybe new cables and housing; probably a new saddle. I love the Brooks Cambium (around $130). That's just me though.
If'n it were me- and I wanted to do a sort of "period" upgrade of the bike- I'd keep the wheels. I'd get a set of cable stops (maybe $20) and score a set of Suntour bar end shifters (maybe $50). I'd replace the rear derailleur with something cool and super functional. To be "period" I would use a 3 pulley Suntour XC(maybe $50). To make it a little later I'd get a Suntour XC Pro or XC Comp or an M730-M735 Deore XT (maybe $60+). I'd want to get a matching front derailleur... just because I'm all obsessive compulsive matchy-matchy like that (maybe $30). Again, if this were me, I'd also replace the brakes with some M732 XT or MT-60 MT-62 cantilevers. IMO- they're much better brakes-(probably the best wide profile cantilevers ever) they're seriously pretty much the same- the only thing that's seems to be different is the stamping on the back (I just bought a set for $40).
If you want to have indexing- having a 6 speed rear end makes things pretty cool- the spacing is the same between Suntour's Accushift 6 speed and Shimano's SIS indexing. For indexing- you just have to use Suntour shifters with an index compatible Suntour derailleur and Shimano shifters with Shimano derailleurs.
If you wanted to really modernize the bike- it's going to cost a bunch of money- a good wheelset (do the 36 spoke wheels) and if'n it were me- I'd go with XT or XTR derailleurs and hubs, Dura Ace bar end shifters Ultegra cassette- Not skimping on anything. About 2 years ago I went sort of this route with my Trek 720- I collected parts for a few years and still dropped an unbelievable amount of money building it up- but it's a SERIOUSLY badass bike.
IMG_2377 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_0616 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_1715 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
IMG_1703 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
I'd say to remember that it's built with thicker- stiffer tubing- it's got a longer wheelbase- it's never going to be a weight weenie, ultralight bike- It would be folly to attempt to do that to this bike. IMO- it'll be great with an 8-9 or 10 speed rear end-
great bike Dave, very similar to what I have in mind for mine. So many great ideas here
06-09-18 | 02:03 PM
#36
Extraordinary Magnitude
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,080
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From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Not sure how to quote, but Dave the golden boy, you are right on point with the direction I have in my head. As she’s gonna probably see a bit of gravel, the 3 pulley seems like the best and most unique choice. As for the bar end versus down tube shifters, I’m interested to see how I’d like that.
The Suntour XC triple pulley derailleur would be one of the 3 derailleurs I would put on my 720 if I kept it with friction shifting. (the other 2 would be Suntour XC Pro and M735 Deore XT) It shifted great, it took up all the chain slack, it was unique and it looked cool as all get out.
Trek 720 w Triple Pulley by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
Suntour XC by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
Suntour XC by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
Regarding downtube vs bar end shifters... There's generations and generations of people that have used DT shifters. There are plenty of those people that still use them, plenty of people will tell you that you can totally get used to them... but why? There's so many better options. IMO- being able to shift with hands on the bars is important when you have a whole lot of weight on the bike- and it's just easier. The reason I recommend bar ends, because they're common and they work really well. My personal preference is for Command Shifters, but I came to that choice over a long, drawn out journey of discovery... not a lot of people use them, but I find them perfect for my style of riding and preference.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
06-09-18 | 02:37 PM
#37
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
My experience with cantilevers is limited -- one 2003 Bob Jackson World Tour with Avid Shortys (aka "The Squeeler") and a recently acquired 1988 Miyata 1000. I replaced the straddle cables on the Miyata with, I believe, exacty what the OP has on his bike except the Shimano cantis have a clamp on one arm for adjusting cable length. I don't think those cables are intended to go full length from arm to arm.
At any rate, when the straddles are that long the brakes will have low mechanical advantage. IOW, you will need to squeeze harder. Shortening them up so that the cable makes an approximately 90º angle at the hanger is a good standard adjustment. To do that you will need to DIY some straddle cables. And to do that you need what BMX people call a knarp (no idea why). Rivendell used to sell these. BMX places have them. Probably at the LBS as well.
Dia-Compe Bicycle Brake Cable Anchor Bolt w/ acorn nut (NO CUT)
06-09-18 | 03:15 PM
#38
Extraordinary Magnitude
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,080
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From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
I recall reading something about the DC960s having the least amount of stopping power, combined with the lack of adjustability, the need for a double ended straddle cable and generally not looking as cool as most other cantilevers (
) IMO- These bikes beg for the wide profile cantilevers- The M732/MT-60/MT-62 brakes are the gold standard for the wide profile cantilevers. I'd choose those over the earlier BR-MC70 brakes because they have the spring tension centering screw.
Grail Brakes by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
06-09-18 | 03:30 PM
#39
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Louisville, KY
I used them and really liked them with a 3x6 speed setup for touring. My bike got bumped while in the rack and work bad enough that it knocked the derailleur out of adjustment and wasn't able to index it. I just flipped the right shifter over to friction and rode home. I kept meaning to fix the indexing, but it was so easy to use that I never got around to it. It's really good for riding on the hoods. Not as easy to shift from the drops. If you stick with Suntour, you could look for Command shifters, but those can be pretty dear.
06-09-18 | 03:40 PM
#40
Thrifty Bill
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,639
Likes: 1,106
From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
No, not backwards. That's correct. They are really way too long, though it wasn't that unusual at the time. No wonder they won't stop a feather. I suggest trying to find some shorter straddle cables. Mechanical advantage is very low when they are that long. A little tricky to change those since they are the fixed at both ends type. I'd suggest the OP get some dia compe or similar barrel stops and make custom straddle cables. Old ROT was to make a 90º angle between straddle cable and imaginary line from brake pivot to where the straddle cable connects.
Also, get some Kool stop brake pads. The brakes will work then. I wouldn't do anything else to that bike except get some decent tires. Modern tires are better. Knobbies suck unless you ride in mud or sand all the time.
Cool bike BTW. Really doesn't need anything other than brake adjustement, pads and tires, IMO.
Also, get some Kool stop brake pads. The brakes will work then. I wouldn't do anything else to that bike except get some decent tires. Modern tires are better. Knobbies suck unless you ride in mud or sand all the time.
Cool bike BTW. Really doesn't need anything other than brake adjustement, pads and tires, IMO.
06-10-18 | 08:55 AM
#41
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Joined: May 2018
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
Just got back from 18 mi and I love everything about this bike, the brakes do need some attention and the saddle will try to kill me if I go much longer. This bike was easily the highlight of my weekend
06-10-18 | 11:26 AM
#42
Extraordinary Magnitude
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,080
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From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Did you get the hubs and bottom bracket greased up?
One other thing- about the backpack... you've got the proprietary racks for that model and size of bike- use them. Not only does the backpack hold the heat and sweat against you, but the weight is on YOU. When I first started commuting and running errands with the bike- I always used a backpack. I remember the first time strapping my stuff to the rack and not even noticing that I had a load.
BTW- for tires- I'm assuming those are 27" wheels... IMO- the 2 best touring bike tires in 27" are the Panaracer Pasela 27 x 1 1/4" and the Sand Canyon 27 x 1 3/8".
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
06-10-18 | 11:45 AM
#43
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Joined: May 2018
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
My dad actually greased everything up for me before I took it. I think he may have stolen the rack screws, only have 2 for the back rack and the center screw for the front, no bottoms, was a little disappointing when I went to put them on.
06-10-18 | 03:21 PM
#44
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Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
I recall reading something about the DC960s having the least amount of stopping power, combined with the lack of adjustability, the need for a double ended straddle cable and generally not looking as cool as most other cantilevers () IMO- These bikes beg for the wide profile cantilevers- The M732/MT-60/MT-62 brakes are the gold standard for the wide profile cantilevers.
) IMO- These bikes beg for the wide profile cantilevers- The M732/MT-60/MT-62 brakes are the gold standard for the wide profile cantilevers.
On the plus side, there is something to be said for low profile brakes. Less chance of them poking your bags.MT62, etc were overall better, agreed. Hard not to agree. The modern Tektro brakes 'inspired' by these are quite nice too.
06-10-18 | 06:13 PM
#45
Used to be Conspiratemus
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Hamilton ON Canada
Restoration efforts
Whatever you do, be aware that if the main brake cable running from lever to yoke breaks, the brake return springs will draw the cantilever arms down and out, dragging the straddle cable onto the tire. If it gets snagged in those knobs, you might endo. Advise that you install something over the tire that will prevent a hay-wire cable from making contact with it. A fender is perfect. Failing that, run a long bolt through the fender-mounting hole in the fork, secured with a nut on each side of the fork, so as to protrude far enough to catch the cable. It doesn't have to be particularly stout -- M5 is fine. Since your current straddle cable is very long -- agree, it needs to be shorter, as above -- it could catch the tire well forward of the brakes and so your "shield" bolt needs to be quite long.
06-10-18 | 06:47 PM
#46
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
Whatever you do, be aware that if the main brake cable running from lever to yoke breaks, the brake return springs will draw the cantilever arms down and out, dragging the straddle cable onto the tire. If it gets snagged in those knobs, you might endo. Advise that you install something over the tire that will prevent a hay-wire cable from making contact with it. A fender is perfect. Failing that, run a long bolt through the fender-mounting hole in the fork, secured with a nut on each side of the fork, so as to protrude far enough to catch the cable. It doesn't have to be particularly stout -- M5 is fine. Since your current straddle cable is very long -- agree, it needs to be shorter, as above -- it could catch the tire well forward of the brakes and so your "shield" bolt needs to be quite long.
06-10-18 | 06:55 PM
#47
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,280
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
Whatever you do, be aware that if the main brake cable running from lever to yoke breaks, the brake return springs will draw the cantilever arms down and out, dragging the straddle cable onto the tire. If it gets snagged in those knobs, you might endo. Advise that you install something over the tire that will prevent a hay-wire cable from making contact with it. A fender is perfect. Failing that, run a long bolt through the fender-mounting hole in the fork, secured with a nut on each side of the fork, so as to protrude far enough to catch the cable. It doesn't have to be particularly stout -- M5 is fine. Since your current straddle cable is very long -- agree, it needs to be shorter, as above -- it could catch the tire well forward of the brakes and so your "shield" bolt needs to be quite long.
06-10-18 | 07:06 PM
#48
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From: Seattle WA
Bikes: 2009 Handsome Devil, 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus, 1978 Motobecane Grand Touring, 1987 Nishiki Cresta GT, 1989 Specialized Allez Former bikes; 1986 Miyata Trail Runner, 1979 Miyata 912, 2011 VO Rando, 1999 Cannondale R800, 1986 Schwinn Passage
06-11-18 | 03:41 AM
#49
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From: Ct
Bikes: 1983 Raleigh Touring 18
I am constantly going to my local true value with a sample nut and bolt to get replacements for the lost or rusty bolts, for mounting a rack they should be pretty standard and are nearly always metric. And +1 on racks beating back packs or messenger bags.(which I used to use). I love having racks and it makes moving panniers or bags between bikes easy when you have an um...issue with bike acquisition...have fun dialing in the Raleigh. Free bikes can get expensive
06-11-18 | 11:46 AM
#50
Extraordinary Magnitude
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,080
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From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
If this is something you’re into- it would be very difficult for you to look for and acquire a much “better” bike, regardless of budget.