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Is this good tubing or gas pipe? Columbus

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Is this good tubing or gas pipe? Columbus

Old 11-08-18, 07:35 PM
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jlaw
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Is this good tubing or gas pipe? Columbus

This is the seat tube label from a Cilo. I don't know much about Columbus.

Thanks!

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Old 11-08-18, 07:47 PM
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Start here, a lot of information for you to peruse...personally I think the tubing is good and not "gas pipe", you could do much worse, ride and enjoy it.
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben
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Old 11-08-18, 07:58 PM
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No, that's Columbus Aelle. Not top of the line, but good tubing none the less. One of my bikes has it and I like the ride. I find it is pretty stiff and a little heavier than SL, and it has a nice solid ride.
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Old 11-08-18, 09:03 PM
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that's Columbus Aelle. Not top of the line, but good tubing none the less.
I could not agree more. Good tubing but not the most exotic one can get.
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Old 11-08-18, 09:06 PM
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Good tubing designed for a heavier rider when other tubing may be too noodly
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Old 11-09-18, 07:27 AM
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Any frame with the Columbus sticker is quality to me, whether it's their top or lower-end tubing.
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Old 11-09-18, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1 View Post
Start here, a lot of information for you to peruse...personally I think the tubing is good and not "gas pipe", you could do much worse, ride and enjoy it.
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben

Thanks to all.

The chart is very helpful and I now see that the 'Aelle' on the label is the specific type of Columbus tubing. I couldn't quite see that wording.
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Old 11-09-18, 11:03 AM
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Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.

It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.

Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
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Old 11-09-18, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.

It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.

Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
I didn't expect that Columbus made 18 different types of tubing used for bikes as shown on the chart. It's interesting to note that the straight gauge Aelle is shown to be lighter per unit volume (2345g) than some of its butted successors like Cromor (2495g) - assuming I'm interpreting these numbers in the chart correctly.

Here's the bike I was looking at:

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Old 11-09-18, 01:29 PM
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^^^^^^ I see some C&V audio gear....
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Old 11-09-18, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
^^^^^^ I see some C&V audio gear....
CDís? Crazy right?
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Old 11-09-18, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.

It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.

Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.

When are you going to write a book?
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Old 11-09-18, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by natterberry View Post
CDís? Crazy right?
I was thinking of the head unit to the left. But yeah, I guess CDs are C&V now....

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Old 11-10-18, 06:07 AM
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Alle Tubing

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.

It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.

Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
+1

Aelle was actually seamed but not in the sense cheap gas pipe tubing.

Standard seamed tubing begins with a strip of sheet metal of the proper width feeding off of a roll. It's continuously fed into a set of rollers and formed into a tubular shape, then the seam is welded. There are several different methods used to weld the seams. The external weld bead is mechanically removed and then the tube is cut to length. Tapered tubes like fork blades and rear stays are first formed into shape and then welded at the seam.


Seam inside a pipe (where the term "gas pipe tubing" came from)



Seam inside a chainstay



Most of the premium tubing like Reynolds 531, Columbus SP, SL, PS, PL, KS, Tange, Ishiwata were seamless and began as a billet of steel, heated red hot then pierced with a special pointed mandrel to create a through hole. Additional mandrels are used as the billet is drawn and rolled to reduce size and wall thickness. The process is referred to as "DOM" Drawn Over Mandrel tubing.

The process was patented in 1888 by Mansmann in Germany a year before Reynolds' patent.

Piercing operation



Drawing over a mandrel to size

The process is continuous with reheating steps in between operations.

Getting back to Aelle tubing, it started off as a steel plate rather than thinner sheet metal that was rolled into a hollow cylinder, welded at the seam and then rolled and drawn down to the desired diameter and wall thickness. This process eliminated the piecing operation and several other steps. After the tubes were worked in the rolls and drawn to size, the seam became somewhat ****geneous with the rest of the tube.

Reynolds 501 tubing was made this way too, so was True Temper and a number of other better quality suppliers. So in that sense, those tubes are seamed.

Seamless DOM tubing is considered superior for critical applications like aerospace and so on.

Now why did Columbus introduce Aelle tubing made of Manganese Carbon steel?

My guess is that Ateliers de a Rive had taken over the French mid range bicycle market with the various flavors of Durifort and Vitus tubing. Tange was promoting Mangaloy which was a Manganese Carbon steel and Ishiwata offered their Mangy tubing which was also Manganese Carbon steel.

By the mid 80's a lot of French bikes were coming with Aelle tubing.

All of those tubes were originally straight gage. Reynolds jumped int the fray with 501 which was made of 4130 Chrome Moly steel. Initially 501 was also straight gage only.

My 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo has a Columbus Tretubi sticker which means only the 3 main tubes are made of Columbus SL. After a lot of research I found that the forks and stays were made with Columbus Aelle tubing.



It's odd that Bianchi used less expensive Aelle forks and stays on a frame built in their Reparto Corse shop. It's a tremendous riding and handling bike, one of my top 10 favorites.

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Old 11-10-18, 07:38 AM
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Aelle

I have Aelle tubing on my 95 Debernardi and like the feel and ride a lot.
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Old 11-10-18, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
I didn't expect that Columbus made 18 different types of tubing used for bikes as shown on the chart. It's interesting to note that the straight gauge Aelle is shown to be lighter per unit volume (2345g) than some of its butted successors like Cromor (2495g) - assuming I'm interpreting these numbers in the chart correctly.


Here'sthe bicycle I was looking aT

The factory claimed weight for the standard (i.e. road) Cromor tubeset was 2190g, which is well below Aelle. I believe what you are referring to is Cromor OR, which was a heavy duty version built for off-road (i.e. ATB/MTB) applications.


BTW, the bicycle you looking at appears to be a 1984-1986 Cilo Aelle with Shimano New 600EX. This was a mid-range model with an MSRP of $500-$530 US, depending on the exact year. It was marketed as a club/novice racing bicycle and was consequently available in both wired-on and tubular wheelsets. This one looks like the tubular version, so you may to confirm the wheel/tyre type. The Look clipless pedals are an owner upgrade.


Cilo (pronounced SEE-low) having been coming out of the woodwork recently. A few days ago, I identified another CIlo Aelle and yesterday a reported Cilo ATB also surfaced on the forum.
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Old 11-10-18, 08:42 AM
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The Columbus chart info (provided in the link) states that Aelle tubing is for an "amateur cyclist". Funny; I've always assumed that if you ride a bicycle, you're a bicyclist (no amateur label). Or, if you like labels, perhaps a novice or beginner bicyclist was what was meant. I'm going to make another assumption... that Columbus forgot the word "racing" in their description. In other (or more) words, the "amateur racing bicyclist". When I purchased my Oschner (built with Aelle tubing) that's how is was pitched to me, or, as tubing for a training (for racing) bicycle.
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