Is this good tubing or gas pipe? Columbus
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Is this good tubing or gas pipe? Columbus
This is the seat tube label from a Cilo. I don't know much about Columbus.
Thanks!
Thanks!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
Start here, a lot of information for you to peruse...personally I think the tubing is good and not "gas pipe", you could do much worse, ride and enjoy it.
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben
__________________
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
Last edited by xiaoman1; 11-08-18 at 07:51 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Queens NYC
Posts: 3,175
Bikes: Colnago Super, Basso Gap, Pogliaghi, Fabio Barecci, Torelli Pista, Miyata 1400A
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
No, that's Columbus Aelle. Not top of the line, but good tubing none the less. One of my bikes has it and I like the ride. I find it is pretty stiff and a little heavier than SL, and it has a nice solid ride.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,752 Times
in
939 Posts
that's Columbus Aelle. Not top of the line, but good tubing none the less.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Richmond VA area
Posts: 2,618
Bikes: '00 Koga Miyata Full Pro Oval Road bike.
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Any frame with the Columbus sticker is quality to me, whether it's their top or lower-end tubing.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Start here, a lot of information for you to peruse...personally I think the tubing is good and not "gas pipe", you could do much worse, ride and enjoy it.
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben
The Bicycle Info Project :: Columbus tubing chart
Best, Ben
Thanks to all.
The chart is very helpful and I now see that the 'Aelle' on the label is the specific type of Columbus tubing. I couldn't quite see that wording.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,038 Times
in
1,876 Posts
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
Here's the bike I was looking at:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2363 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,191 Posts
^^^^^^ I see some C&V audio gear....
#11
Senior Member
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 753 Times
in
410 Posts
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
When are you going to write a book?
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2363 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,191 Posts
#14
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,030
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
654 Posts
Alle Tubing
Columbus Aelle was a tubeset employing a carbon-manganese (CMn) steel alloy in seamless, plain gauge tubes. The tensile strength, and consequently the wall thickness and weight, was between hi-tensile and chrominum-molybdenum (CrMo) steels. It's main advantage was that the brazing temperature range was wider than CrMo and therefore could employ less expensive, semi-automated brazing processes.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
It was introduced for the 1978 model year and was typically found on mid-range racing bicycles and touring models. Often it was used for the stays and blades, in conjunction with higher grade main tubes, typically Columbus SL or SP. This reduced cost over a full SL frame while minimizing the weight increase. It was also manufactured in an Aelle R variant with butted main tubes.
Use of the Aelle tubeset started declining in the late 1980s, when Columbus developed economical, seamed, CrMo tubesets such as Matrix and Cromor, which took over the mid-range market.
Aelle was actually seamed but not in the sense cheap gas pipe tubing.
Standard seamed tubing begins with a strip of sheet metal of the proper width feeding off of a roll. It's continuously fed into a set of rollers and formed into a tubular shape, then the seam is welded. There are several different methods used to weld the seams. The external weld bead is mechanically removed and then the tube is cut to length. Tapered tubes like fork blades and rear stays are first formed into shape and then welded at the seam.
Seam inside a pipe (where the term "gas pipe tubing" came from)
Seam inside a chainstay
Most of the premium tubing like Reynolds 531, Columbus SP, SL, PS, PL, KS, Tange, Ishiwata were seamless and began as a billet of steel, heated red hot then pierced with a special pointed mandrel to create a through hole. Additional mandrels are used as the billet is drawn and rolled to reduce size and wall thickness. The process is referred to as "DOM" Drawn Over Mandrel tubing.
The process was patented in 1888 by Mansmann in Germany a year before Reynolds' patent.
Piercing operation
Drawing over a mandrel to size
The process is continuous with reheating steps in between operations.
Getting back to Aelle tubing, it started off as a steel plate rather than thinner sheet metal that was rolled into a hollow cylinder, welded at the seam and then rolled and drawn down to the desired diameter and wall thickness. This process eliminated the piecing operation and several other steps. After the tubes were worked in the rolls and drawn to size, the seam became somewhat homogeneous with the rest of the tube.
Reynolds 501 tubing was made this way too, so was True Temper and a number of other better quality suppliers. So in that sense, those tubes are seamed.
Seamless DOM tubing is considered superior for critical applications like aerospace and so on.
Now why did Columbus introduce Aelle tubing made of Manganese Carbon steel?
My guess is that Ateliers de a Rive had taken over the French mid range bicycle market with the various flavors of Durifort and Vitus tubing. Tange was promoting Mangaloy which was a Manganese Carbon steel and Ishiwata offered their Mangy tubing which was also Manganese Carbon steel.
By the mid 80's a lot of French bikes were coming with Aelle tubing.
All of those tubes were originally straight gage. Reynolds jumped int the fray with 501 which was made of 4130 Chrome Moly steel. Initially 501 was also straight gage only.
My 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo has a Columbus Tretubi sticker which means only the 3 main tubes are made of Columbus SL. After a lot of research I found that the forks and stays were made with Columbus Aelle tubing.
It's odd that Bianchi used less expensive Aelle forks and stays on a frame built in their Reparto Corse shop. It's a tremendous riding and handling bike, one of my top 10 favorites.
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-10-18 at 08:44 AM.
Likes For verktyg:
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,038 Times
in
1,876 Posts
I didn't expect that Columbus made 18 different types of tubing used for bikes as shown on the chart. It's interesting to note that the straight gauge Aelle is shown to be lighter per unit volume (2345g) than some of its butted successors like Cromor (2495g) - assuming I'm interpreting these numbers in the chart correctly.
Here'sthe bicycle I was looking aT
Here'sthe bicycle I was looking aT
The factory claimed weight for the standard (i.e. road) Cromor tubeset was 2190g, which is well below Aelle. I believe what you are referring to is Cromor OR, which was a heavy duty version built for off-road (i.e. ATB/MTB) applications.
BTW, the bicycle you looking at appears to be a 1984-1986 Cilo Aelle with Shimano New 600EX. This was a mid-range model with an MSRP of $500-$530 US, depending on the exact year. It was marketed as a club/novice racing bicycle and was consequently available in both wired-on and tubular wheelsets. This one looks like the tubular version, so you may to confirm the wheel/tyre type. The Look clipless pedals are an owner upgrade.
Cilo (pronounced SEE-low) having been coming out of the woodwork recently. A few days ago, I identified another CIlo Aelle and yesterday a reported Cilo ATB also surfaced on the forum.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: south kansas america
Posts: 1,910
Bikes: too many
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
140 Posts
The Columbus chart info (provided in the link) states that Aelle tubing is for an "amateur cyclist". Funny; I've always assumed that if you ride a bicycle, you're a bicyclist (no amateur label). Or, if you like labels, perhaps a novice or beginner bicyclist was what was meant. I'm going to make another assumption... that Columbus forgot the word "racing" in their description. In other (or more) words, the "amateur racing bicyclist". When I purchased my Oschner (built with Aelle tubing) that's how is was pitched to me, or, as tubing for a training (for racing) bicycle.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jet sanchEz
Classic & Vintage
26
10-01-21 08:51 PM