Ok this is my first venture into Campy. Here is my question. I have a beautiful Campy super record crank i want to use with a Dura ace group. Are the chain rings different? Do they use a different chain? It is for a 5 speed freewheel.
Thanks!

PS: I did some research and came away more confused!

Did Shimano make 144BCD rings for their early Dura Ace?

You should be fine for 5/6/7 speed, at least. Maybe higher.

Friction Shifting?

I've lost track a bit of what cranks work on what bottom brackets, so I try to keep it like brands.

I'm confused by the question. Are you asking can a Campy crank be used with Dura Ace derailleurs? Yes, of course. When using a 5 speed freewheel you want to use old style wide chain. Wait a minute. Which Dura Ace derailleurs are we talking about? If it means some new concoction made for 11speed chain and battery operated derailleurs then you have opened many cans of worms. Don't go there. Use old parts with other old parts and interchangeability is much simpler.

It is 5 speed with friction shifting. No New Concoction. I have a Dura ace 9000 sitting at the house but not even thinking about going there. I have found a few 144 BCD chain rings that are 3/32. Will they work with the old dura ace or Crane. I guess what I am asking is are they the same chain? I was told that the chains were different between The Suntour,Campy and Shimano.Wanted to try to confirm before buying.

With very few exceptions, all bicycle chains are 1/2" pitch, and 3/32" (for vintage) or 1/18" wide (BMX, Single speed, IGH).

You should be pretty much just fine with 5-speed stuff.

There were some changes at 6-speed, including a 6-speed "narrow", but still, probably not much of a problem.

Your incompatibility may come in with single speed. I have seen single speed chains with oversized chain plates, and skip links, but nothing like that in the last 30 years.

Ok, Thank you for your help! Still at the drawing board. Just weighing my options.

I think DA was always at 130 BCD, right from the start..... my DA crank from 1972 (I think) is at 130 BCD.....

...BCD measurements have nothing to do with which chain you use. They are a specification for different chainwheels, and represent a measurement of where the holes sit that you use to bolt the chainwheels to the crank spider.

For a while Campy used 144, and some of the other makers followed this standard in their early higher end cranks.

Shimano used 130 for a long time, so there are a lot of used chainrings still bouncing around in the used parts stream. 144 rings are not impossible to find, but they are a little less common. If you want to save yourself some energy and money in experimenting with chainring size and gearing, go with 130 BCD crank right now.

Campagnolo switched from 151mm BCD chainrings to 144mm BCD rings in 1966. By the early 1970's Campy crank knockoffs became popular, for example Sugino and SR. 42T was the smallest standard 144mm BCD chainring commonly available. TA, Stronglight and Suntour brought out 144mm BCD cranks in the early 80's for the racing set, or at least the racing image. I've yet to see a logical explanation for a 144mm size BCD!

Campagnolo for whatever reason made a few - very few - 41T chain rings and in every discussion this pops up. TA also made a few 41T 144 BCD chainrings but for practical reasons 42T should be considered the smallest size 144mm BCD chainring. I have 2 or 3 of the 41T 144mm BCD chain rings that I've acquired over the past 45 years.

BTW, there is only 1" - ONE INCH - difference between a 42T x 28T combination and a 41T x 28T. The 1" difference is less than one wet flatus!

When Shimano introduced their DuraAce cranks about 1974 they used a 130mm BCD that allowed a 39T small chainring. By the early 1980's, 130mm became the de facto standard for road bikes with Japanese componentry. Campy sort of followed suit in 1984 with their C-Record cranks. They have a bastardo 135mm BCD and can take a 39T small chainring too.

Most 130mm BCD cranks can take a 38T small chain ring but some have to have some metal filled off of the mounting flanges otherwise the chain drags.




BITD, it was not uncommon to see Shimano Crane long arm rear derailleurs on Campy equipped bikes especially for running 32T or 34T freewheels. I'd throw on a Crane to use with a 14-34T FW for loaded touring in the mountains.



The 6-7-8 speed chains from SRAM and KCM will work well with 5 speed FWs too. The inexpensive model Shimano chains are good too.

Paying more than $20 bucks for a bike chain is just stupid vanity! It's just a bike chain with usually no more than a 3000 mile life expectancy!

Those newer style chains from the late 70's on have features in the links that are designed to pick up the sprockets more quickly.

Standard bike chain from the 1970's



About 1976 Shimano bought out their Uniglide chain and it revolutionized shifting!




Later the SedisSport chains came along and they also worked well.



The biggest improvement in bicycle shifting came with Shimano's Hyperglide freewheels and cassettes with ramps stamped into the cogs to pick up the chain.



This info should help you decide.

verktyg

@ verktyg

I ALWAYS enjoy your posts !

Thanks,

I just retired on Thursday so I'll have more time to spend on the forum.

verktyg

+ 1, How about a second shout out to [MENTION=61614]verktyg[/MENTION].

Wow, Thank you for the info! Congrats on the Retirement verktyg!!! Great Info! I did understand what bcd meant but wanted to give as much info as possible. This is the first Campy group I ever had. I was told that the chain and free wheel/chain rings were different in their spacing so would need campy stuff. I didn't want to mess it up. What I am hearing is the chainrings will work on either Campy or Dura ace, Correct?

Congratulations on the retirement [MENTION=61614]verktyg[/MENTION]!!!

Yeah, all the 5 and 6 speed era stuff is mix and match. Use whatever derailleur and crankset you want.

There were only two chain sizes: standard (Regina, Union, everyone else) and narrow (Suntour ultra and Sedisport). You can use either of those on standard 5 and 6 speed stuff, both are compatible. It's a moot point now, because all modern 5/6/7/8 speed chains are narrow. Racers generally stuck to standard spacing -- see explanation for "Ultra" below. Sedisport chains were pretty dominant towards the end of the friction shift era.

Chainrings were all the same.

I'd suggest one of those SRAM chains, and 850 or something. They are the successor to the Sedisport and will work perfectly.

This isn't pertinent to your question, but the reason narrow chains were sometimes required BITD was if you were running Suntour Ultra freewheels. These were special narrow spaced freewheels allowed you to fit 6 cogs where you'd normally have a 5 speed, or 7 where you'd have a standard 6. Frankly, they were never super popular. A lot of the club/century riders liked them though.

Excellent info as we adapt Campy cranks and such to bikes that came equipped with who knows whos stamped steel front sets

...this is true once you get to indexed shifting, with the stops and clicks. Sometimes you can make one work with the other and index OK, but if you're doing the older 5-6 cogged stuff and friction shifting (as already stated) pretty much of anything works unless you try to use a track chainwheel with a chain that's too narrow to fit on the teeth.

Thanks again for the info. Am going to go ahead and run the super record for now. If I don't like it I will change to DA later.
Thanks again!
Bill