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Saddle points down

Old 11-05-20, 08:15 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
I’m built and about as smart as a monkey 6’2” with a 31” PBH and I was an Infantryman yet my Brooks professional is nose up

Junk orientation is unique I suppose but I’ve never had a Brooks that was comfortable any other way than nose up whether it be my Colnago, Serotta, or this Bruce Gordon
Interesting - I note your drops are quite shallow though, so it's not unlike flipped North Roads. What I find particularly interesting is that the back of the Pro has taken on a shape similar to the saddles more associated with upright-bar Brooks - flat in the back, with no center ridge.

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Old 11-05-20, 09:39 PM
  #27  
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Interesting that you would bring this up, or down! Made me look at pictures of my bikes not only of the present but the past as well.

Doesn't matter if I am using a Flite or Brooks, the saddle is always a bit downward pointing. My HB are usually 2 - 2.5 " below the saddle. In flat bar has the saddle about level.

In my youth, i got to the point where I didn't even notice the saddle as a support, more of a way to locate the frame under me. I would like to get back to that level of performance!

I don't go by what others council, I adjust to comfort. I do think my stems are too long and have shorter ones now available. HB tape is still good and cable housings are about he right length. Lot of work to change a stem (quill).
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Old 11-06-20, 07:08 AM
  #28  
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When it comes to narbits everybody’s different. But I suspect that many casual riders don’t even think about their saddle angle, or ride enough to care.

4. I’ve had one saddle and one seatpost whose max tilt still angled slightly downward. They were quality parts too, so maybe a “need for speed” can sometimes also be to blame?

Last edited by jethin; 11-07-20 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 11-06-20, 11:06 AM
  #29  
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Saddle tilt relates to how the rider is positioned on the bike, which in turn is related to how much torque on average is being applied to the pedals.

Long rides and gentle rides will see the rider applying less pedaling torque, which then has the rider's body weight falling forward relative to the bottom bracket "balancing point".

Shorter, harder rides require more pedaling torque, which tries force the rider's bottom rearward at the saddle, in opposition to the additional pedaling torque.

So, with intense pedaling requiring a more-forward position over the bottom bracket, the rider's body has also rotated forward. In addition, any effort at being aero will further tilt the rider's upper body and pelvis further forward. So of course the body's saddle-contact area has also rotated forward, necessitating some degree of comparative downward tilt of the saddle.

In addition to personal significant differences in different rider's body's weight distribution, the harder-pedaling and more-aero rider will tend to find a more-forward and more forward-tilting saddle most comfortable (relative to a more "relaxed" rider's fit adjustments).

Another factor in saddle positioning is how a forward saddle requires the rider to make less of a heave effort in order to pull themself up into an off-saddle position, which bodes well for quicker and more-frequent jumps out of the saddle as when sprinting or attacking steep terrain. This also can reduce knee strain/pain associated with long rides in hilly terrain, allowing a rider to ride further.

Lastly, perhaps the most common fit mistake I've observed is for riders whose saddle is only slightly too low to misinterpret their resultant slipping back over the rear edge of the saddle as meaning that their saddle needs to be moved rearward. Better to first raise the saddle, so as to keep the reach to the handlebars more comfortable and to preserve the weight distribution (stability) and aero benefits of a more forward saddle position.

Last edited by dddd; 11-06-20 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 11-06-20, 11:59 AM
  #30  
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@dddd I always appreciate your contributions for their deep knowledge and excellent explanations.
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Old 11-06-20, 06:49 PM
  #31  
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Trying to analyze stuff like this online never seems productive. Handlebar tilt, brake lever position, saddle tilt/setback, Q-factor, etc - you don't know unless you actually know.

I've known people with one leg longer than the other. "Anterior pelvic tilt and posterior pelvic tilt are very common abnormalities in regard to the orientation of the pelvis" (The Wiki).

Folks out there have had neck injuries and surgeries, back issues, you name it. Sure, inexperience is out there, but it's just one of many potential factors.

Also, the saddle itself can be different enough to necessitate a degree of tilt. Here's my Ironman with a Prologo Nago Evo PAS saddle that I like. Notice the slight downward tilt:



Here is another of my bikes that is also comfortable:


Different saddle tilts, both comfortable.
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Old 11-07-20, 10:13 AM
  #32  
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Fair points, @BFisher! It's not always a sign of inexperience or bad fit.
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Old 11-07-20, 05:11 PM
  #33  
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I’m just reading the thread.
I’m not sure what to think.
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Old 11-07-20, 06:34 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
Trying to analyze stuff like this online never seems productive. Handlebar tilt, brake lever position, saddle tilt/setback, Q-factor, etc - you don't know unless you actually know.

I've known people with one leg longer than the other. "Anterior pelvic tilt and posterior pelvic tilt are very common abnormalities in regard to the orientation of the pelvis" (The Wiki).

Folks out there have had neck injuries and surgeries, back issues, you name it. Sure, inexperience is out there, but it's just one of many potential factors.

Also, the saddle itself can be different enough to necessitate a degree of tilt. Here's my Ironman with a Prologo Nago Evo PAS saddle that I like. Notice the slight downward tilt:



Here is another of my bikes that is also comfortable:


Different saddle tilts, both comfortable.
Indeed. I've had a bulging disc repaired, past knee surgery, and I'm a year into recovering from a fractured neck. My torso to leg length proportion is wacked, and I have something called rotated tibias from birth. Right hand has some residual nerve issue from a crash. BTW docs don't know what to call my injured disc because I have an extra one between L5 and S1. Meanwhile, I've gotten old.

Edit: Also, I'm a Randonneur and everything about my setup is geared toward comfort on a 1200.

Nobody but a fitter who has worked with me extensively has any idea what they are talking about, with regards to my bike setup.

​​​​​​

Last edited by downtube42; 11-07-20 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 11-10-20, 01:56 PM
  #35  
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I tried moving my seat ONE INCH higher and tipped it all the way forward and down (45 degrees)!

I then moved my handle bars ONE INCH down!

In other words I TIPPED my entire body ONE INCH forward!

It was GREAT! It takes your weight OFF YOUR ASS and puts it on your PEDALS where it belongs!

It is FREE SPEED because you get at least TWO GEARS and you go 3 to 5 % FASTER with LESS effort!

The bike also handles FAR BETTER because you DON'T STEER you just LEAN!

The idea is to have ONE THIRD of your weight on you ASS and ONE THIRD on your pedals and ONE THIRD on your hands!

The bike GOES FASTER and handles better! Try it!
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Old 11-10-20, 02:06 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by hotman637 View Post
I tried moving my seat ONE INCH higher and tipped it all the way forward and down (45 degrees)!

I then moved my handle bars ONE INCH down!

In other words I TIPPED my entire body ONE INCH forward!

It was GREAT! It takes your weight OFF YOUR ASS and puts it on your PEDALS where it belongs!
Yes, I wonder why no one does that

Why not remove the seat entirely? And get a TT bike?

It is FREE SPEED because you get at least TWO GEARS and you go 3 to 5 % FASTER with LESS effort!

The bike also handles FAR BETTER because you DON'T STEER you just LEAN!
Wow.

The idea is to have ONE THIRD of your weight on you ASS and ONE THIRD on your pedals and ONE THIRD on your hands!

The bike GOES FASTER and handles better! Try it!
Nah, I'll go the whole hog: remove the seat, get a 34 inch rear tyre from a Penny Farthing, and use its rear wheel as my front wheel. MOAR POWAR; BABY!

Edit:
Ah, I see it's your first post. So, it's a sock from someone.
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Old 11-10-20, 02:18 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
Yes, I wonder why no one does that

Why not remove the seat entirely? And get a TT bike?


Wow.



Nah, I'll go the whole hog: remove the seat, get a 34 inch rear tyre from a Penny Farthing, and use its rear wheel as my front wheel. MOAR POWAR; BABY!

Edit:
Ah, I see it's your first post. So, it's a sock from someone.

I have seen a number of people who have their seat like this because it works!

I used to post on "SlowTwitch" but they don't like new ideas!

Not only does it have the benefits I have listed it also takes the pressure of your penis!

The only drawback it is hard to go no hands! TRY IT before you decide what you think!
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Old 11-10-20, 02:22 PM
  #38  
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LOL, no, some things doesn't need to be tried to dismiss it. I don't need to try homeopathy either to know it doesn't work. But at least homeopathy won't have any bad side effects (it's water).

It's not about not liking "new ideas". It's that some ideas are just outright stupid (free energy, more output while providing less input etc.).

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Old 11-10-20, 02:42 PM
  #39  
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The "idea" is NOT that you HAVE to adjust your seat like I mentioned the "idea"

is that you BALANCE your weight between your ASS FEET and HANDS!

In other words it is BALANCE! EVERYONE agrees with balance! So if you

are already balanced equally on your bike then no worries! If you are sitting to much

on your ass you are hauling around DEAD WEIGHT!
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Old 11-10-20, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hotman637 View Post
The "idea" is NOT that you HAVE to adjust your seat like I mentioned the "idea"

is that you BALANCE your weight between your ASS FEET and HANDS!

In other words it is BALANCE! EVERYONE agrees with balance! So if you

are already balanced equally on your bike then no worries! If you are sitting to much

on your ass you are hauling around DEAD WEIGHT!
Yeah, no. That's not how physics work. At all.

You have two more posts before you have to wait for another 24 hours. Make them good and entertaining!
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Old 11-10-20, 02:55 PM
  #41  
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Balance means an equal distribution of weight! That is all I am saying!
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Old 11-10-20, 03:00 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by hotman637 View Post
Balance means an equal distribution of weight! That is all I am saying!
I know what the word means. It doesn't support your wild "ideas" one bit. Do you also walk on all fours to "balance" yourself?
One to go. I was a little disappointed with the quality of the quoted post, considering your other posts.
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Old 11-10-20, 03:58 PM
  #43  
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So I've had this set up wrong the whole time


I was wondering why the ad had the nose down. Now I know

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Old 11-10-20, 04:02 PM
  #44  
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Excessive use of exclamation marks doesn't add credibility.
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Old 11-10-20, 04:02 PM
  #45  
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It should be MOAR down - 45 degrees according to that bloke. Because, you know, "balance", and the "fact" that you get free energy from that "balance": Less effort, but more power output.
I was hoping he would fire of his fifth post with a huge "explanation" how this would actually work, but I fear that won't happen.
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Old 11-10-20, 04:19 PM
  #46  
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I've seen some really wacky saddle angles on the various cheap fixed gear or single speed bikes the kids are riding in the city these days. I think it's just because they don't know any better (saw some of them attempting a front brake repair one time, and it was clear they didn't know what they were doing).

Originally Posted by noglider View Post
You usually see Italian style saddles* dead level, at least on bikes with experienced riders. And this is with the handlebar somewhat lower or higher than the saddle.
*Italian style saddles: my term for a plastic shell with a cover glued or stapled on, usually with padding between the shell and cover.
Modern Italian saddle on a less than modern Italian bike. Super comfy for me.
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Old 11-10-20, 04:27 PM
  #47  
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Whatever saddle is installed on a bike, I find it necessary to adjust it repeatedly, in small increments, so that I'm comfortable on it: not constantly sliding forward, not with the nose "impacting" my groin. I find such a place on all types, and it's usually slightly nose-up. Though I try to guesstimate when putting a bike together, that doesn't really matter -- don't think I've ever gotten it "right" straightaway. I pity anyone who doesn't think about this when setting up a bike, or bother to go through the exercise; it makes a great deal of difference, as much as saddle height, in the comfort of riding. And, if I change something like the style of bars on a bike, I need to go through it again, since everything's relative to the other things.

A 2-bolt seatpost makes such fine adjustment much easier than a single-bolt type.
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Old 11-10-20, 04:57 PM
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You are all wrong. This is the proper position for a saddle.




-Kurt
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Old 11-10-20, 05:06 PM
  #49  
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wth?
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Old 11-11-20, 08:37 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by hotman637 View Post
not only does it have the benefits i have listed it also takes the pressure of your penis!
LOL.
Why would you even sit on your penis?
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