non-fixie 

As long as you use a Shimano SIS rear derailleur, there's no need to change or add anything.

6-speed block with 9-speed Ergo:

Andy_K 

Sure, it's aging out, but it's still called classic rock.

Anecdotally, my 20 year old daughter is really into Pink Floyd, but she and I disagree over whether or not The Division Bell is classic. She thinks it is. I think it's what happens when a band (or some members thereof) don't know when to quit. She also likes Hall and Oates, so I feel like her credibility is weak. I think this is still tracking, very loosely, to the bike situation.

Chuck M 

All in the eyes of the beholder. I've never really thought of it, but while for some reason I look at the vintage cutoff being 30 years, others certainly see it differently. And classic is even a muddier line I suppose. Bike boom bikes like I have hanging in my garage easily fell into vintage by that yardstick but I've never seen them as classics. But I have a couple of Takaras I guess are classic examples of vintage bike boom bikes now that I consider it differently.

I couldn't understand why some people were so for or against this new forum but I suppose it may stem from these interpretations of classic and vintage and their passion for bicycles spilling over into it. Riding what you love and loving what you ride is why most people read the C&V forums and keep it active.

The Golden Boy 

I think it follows quite well to bikes- "Old" is relative. Whether it's called "classic rock" or "oldies" is irrelevant- it's what old people listen to.

Several years ago- I was watching a movie with Jamie Gertz in it- she was friends with a 21-ish girl. She was bagging on the young girl for taking home a "grunge era leftover." It sounded like a creepy old dinosaur. And it hit me- I'm that "grunge era" old. I'm the equivalent of that goofy old guy dancing around to Jan and Dean in the metal shop when I was 22. Yeah, he was a big, gruff guy, he was a biker, I'm sure when he was younger he was a big scary biker guy- but he was old and loved old people music. He's probably in an assisted living facility- being awful to the caregivers and cranking up Jan and Dean really loud thinking he's a badass. No matter how "cool," "hip" or "with it" you think you are... you're still old.

The Golden Boy 

From my post above:

Not only the practical "making it difficult," it also drives a wedge through the C&V community. "Your bike does not belong here." And that is antithetical to what this forum has historically been about.

cudak888 

Too bad it doesn't require some ridiculous scheme to do it.

How about on a four-cog freewheel?

-Kurt

SurferRosa

You're right that post-Waters Floyd is neither C nor V.

But a soulful ballad like Sara Smile is, absolutely, 100%.

Just like early '70s BÖC.


"It's all right!"

bark_eater 

the sci guy 

I think the definition of "classic" with music, much like with bikes, depends on how it's being used. To me, classic can be used as "that's a classic!" as in, it's an important, stand out piece of work that is noted in history; like a Shelby Cobra, or Frampton Comes Alive. The other way is classic as in a time period/epoch, etc. Like, classical music. For the most part, orchestral music from the 1600-early 1900's is all lumped together as "classical" music - or any cars built between 1940-1980 are classic cars, etc.

For the purposes of this forum discussion, I like to think of classic in terms of the time frame: so there's a vintage epoch, and a classic epoch of bikes. And yes, it's a moving time frame because of the spacetime continuum. However, the type of bikes & components meld into each other pretty well, and frames from both periods have parts that swap back and forth depending on tastes. So I think keeping everything together in one forum makes the most sense.

And for the record, The Division Bell is absolutely a classic album that features some of Gilmour's best guitar playing & lyrics (thanks Polly Samson). A Momentary Lapse was a definite 80's album, but it gave us Sorrow, On the Turning Away, & Terminal Frost. Gilmour's subsequent solo albums have also been real good - though On An Island was light years better than Rattle That Lock. Is the Division Bell as classic as the likes of Dark Side, WYWH, Animals, or The Wall? No, those are huge culturally/musically impactful albums. But it's still a great album from a great band. Just like my 1994 Specialized isn't a ground breaking bike, but it's a good frame from the respected company.

tricky 

Get off my subforum, er, lawn!

3alarmer 

...it would be cool to have a "Specialized Only" forum. I can imagine long rants about how Mike Sinyard is the earthly presence of Beelzebub, and how wonderful some of the bikes are, considering the ethical and moral bankruptcy of a company that sues everyone over intellectual property and proprietary rights, along with the history of their early mountain bike origins. I would definitely follow that forum.

gaucho777 

I am not likely to ever visit that other forum. I spend almost all my time in C&V. I occasionally dip my toes in the Road and Commuting forums, more for the topical discussion than for the bikes. I was sort of indifferent about the whole thing until I realized that mods are actively going through and moving threads into this new forum.

Quoted from the other linked thread:
At first I thought @Drillium Dude posted his stunning Davidson in that forum to get the ball rolling over there. Same with @jamesdak and his (classic but maybe not quite vintage enough?) Pinarello Monviso. Now I realized those threads were likely moved by the mods. I probably never would have bothered to look over there, and would have missed these beautiful, classic , KOF builds from people I consider "C&V BF members." I'd be bummed if that was my thread and I wanted to share those bikes with the community with which I most associate. I consider myself a bit of a retro-grouch curmudgeon, but I'm happy to see those bikes/threads in the C&V forum.

EDIT:
I see the "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" thread has been moved, too

I've got a '85 De Rosa Pro I built with 9-speed ergos. It's built with a mix of 80s and 90s Chorus/C-Record/Record. The truth is, the frame doesn't look much different from an early 90s De Rosa Pro. I've posted a photo of this bike in that "Retro Roadies with STI..." thread. I think that thread should remain in C&V. It's specifically for C&V bikes "upgraded" with brifters, not bikes from the early brifter era. It's a slippery slope and an unnecessary division of our interests imho.

dedhed

Did I think an additional sub forum was needed? No, not really. I had no issue with those falling into C&V if posters felt that's where they'd get the best results.
Will I visit it? Yeah probably, maybe on an as needed basis. Mostly if I picked up a bike in that category and need some advice.

Admin made a decision, will it change my life? No.
Whatever, another sub forum on an internet forum. Read or scroll by, life goes on.

non-fixie 

I believe that requires a more complicated cable routing:

cudak888 

Engineered in the UK, then?

-Kurt

jamesdak 

Yeah, mods moved that Pinarello one for whatever reason. Just got a PM saying it had been moved and was like WTH?? I post for my "family" and my family is C&V.

non-fixie 

While I appreciate the proactive stance and the effort of the mods, this move might have been a little premature, IMO. What unites us in this community is not so much the exact age of bikes or parts, but the way we look at bikes (and life in general, for that matter). C&V is my favorite online watering hole. I enjoy the folks here, and whether the topic is 1950's tubing characteristics, early Weinmann brifters or the belief shared by some that cats would exterminate humanity if they could, matters less to me.

Removing popular threads like "Retro Roadies - old frames with STI or Ergos" is quite unfortunate. I liked (note the past tense) that thread.

Andy_K 

Retro Roadies? Nooooooo!!!!!

“We got a present for you.”

SurferRosa

.

tricky 

Yup agreed. @Siu Blue Wind can we officially end the experiment now and get the threads moved back to C&V and the brifter forum closed? The consensus is that we'd like it all within C&V.

The Golden Boy 

Report the post and ask that it get moved to where it belongs.

curbtender

I was wondering if they were going to purge those threads from the road bike forum also?

mstateglfr 

So will all threads about MTBs that are in 'general' be moved to the 'MTB' forum?
Will all threads about road bikes that are in 'general' be moved to the 'road' forum?
Will all threads about MTBs that are in 'C&V' be moved to the 'MTB' forum?
Will all threads about early hybrids that are in C&V' be moved to the 'Hybrid' forum?
And then there are the touring/bikepacking threads that are started and left in 'General'.

Clearly where threads are allowed to stay is more of a guideline than a rule, so...
Stop moving threads to the new forum without checking to see if the OP wants it there.

mstateglfr 

If people can post where they want, then let the threads stay where the person wanted.

genejockey 

I resemble that remark....