The thing is, we have some super knowledgeable people here in the C&V forum. Once we're exiled over to the 'kids' table' in that other forum we lose the expertise of these guys.
My bikes came with 6sp & down tube shifters, but I modernize them with 7/8 sp drivetrain and dual pivot brakes and brifters, so now I am a fish out of water in either forum.

Hm. I can't help but agree with this simple logic.

I think you may have misinterpreted me. My comment was meant specifically for the new brifter forum - especially in regards to moving the retro roadie thread.

Where would you post a thread about this one?

The "Goro Subforum?"


By Pikawil from Laval, Canada - Montreal Comiccon 2015: Goro, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=42791500

Apparently I have. Sorry about that. My comment was indeed about the C&V forum, but I don't think anyone misunderstood that.

I share [MENTION=173992]non-fixie[/MENTION] 's sentiment in Post#129.
And I admire the C&V Forum espcially, & BF overall for the 17year contribution to a hobby pursued for 1/2 my long lifetime.

I come to the Internet to learn and share.
I visit CR, theCabe, thepaceline and some UK sites as well.
Not an expert cyclist or mechanic or collector.
A modest pedaler, wrencher and preserver.
And i don't take myself too seriously.

C&V has been a staple for me but not an exclusive.
Golly, I even visit Road, General & 50+.
8/9/10 bikes - have an enthusiast following, just not as big as ...say 1900s through 1987. Well duh?!? 15 years of rapid development vs 87 years of development and huge doses of youthful nostalgia.

I asked for a venue years ago. Sticky, sub-Forum, or Forum. Gently and modestly repeated in threads where appropriate for years. Maybe with some other changes @ BF this got an ear. IDK. The 8/9/10 years/bikes are certainly not discussed/recognized uniquely on any other site

I stand by a separate discussion location for integrated 7/8/9/10 that often get ignored by C&V (????....those stupid dummies liked stiff frames?, crit geo?, 23mm tires? instead of lugs rolling 48mm on 28+# touring bikes???); and openly scorned in the Road Forum as obsolete.

I offer adding 10speed as well to the new forum would be a benefit.

Since I am not an owner or mod I have no insight behind the changes.
But I will support them regardless of where a thread or 2 or 3 gets placed on their site.

For those dissatisfied, become part of the Solution = become a good Moderator and have voice at BF. I hear you don't have to pay for the pleasure of adjudicating everyone's displeasure and temperament.

Ride on...with a smile.




clear your handlebars and your mind will follow!

nick in a cage

(man, that movie was bad)

Did it need movement of any thread at all started here? Were these bikes underappreciated, or the parts were? I've been commenting on here for quite some time as well and some of my bikes get ignored but I shrug and move on. The new forum I have no issue with but let the threads lie wherever they are laid. It's pretentious to go back through the catalog and reshuffle it all. Was it really needed?

It seems like too many folks are getting hung up on semantics and nomenclature. The intent behind the structure and division of any online discussion forum should strive to bring together like-minded folk. The early brifter-era road bikes certainly have a place here in C&V, but I can imagine the deluge of C&V posts tend not to draw in as many folks with interest exclusive to that 'era' (if I may call it that). I personally agree that the new forum (or sub-forum, wherever it gets placed) is a worthy experiment, whose success might be judged by how much special interest it draws from that crowd.

Regarding semantics, I've experienced enough of that on classic vintage car forums, where heated discussions occur with disturbing regularity over what should and should not qualify as 'spirit of the original'.

Here's my 2c:

• I agree with some commenters above that road bikes from the 90s and 00s are somewhat orphaned currently.
• It should not be assumed that qualification for the new forum also disqualifies from the old forum. I enjoy the fluidity of the various sub-forums-- 80s component topics on mechanics forum as well as C&V, vintage touring topics on the touring forum as well as C&V, commuting... you get the gist. In the end, it's all subjective and situational.
• A 1983 Univega Specialissima with brifters is C&V, and having brifters does not suddenly transform it into a 1999 Klein. Brifters would be just another component I might upgrade on what is otherwise a C&V bike, big deal. And if I do, I logically expect to continue posting about that bike here.
• Perhaps we ought to rename the new forum to avoid confusion with what qualifies. How about "early brifter-era road bikes", or something like that?
• For the sake of continuity, with the understanding that the new sub-forum might be experimental, I say leave old threads where they are, unless some compelling reason arises.

Lastly, I thank the moderators and maintainers of this site. They deserve continued praise for persevering through the needs of this very 'special' crowd. However, if this change is being made, then it should be made in a way that does the least harm.

The cross pollination this sort of thing brings to the table, screen, etc. is priceless, especially here where there can be a lot of gray area. As we and the/our bikes age, we have to adapt and look for ways to keep us on them and increase the capability and performance. The creative and inventive combinations that are helped along by the experience here is nothing short of amazing on a regular basis.

The more diverse we stay, the more diverse, capable bikes we'll be able to keep riding.

I fear that you may have unknowingly crossed a line.

Sure, separate forum for those bikes makes sense. But that’s clearly not the direction the mod staff is taking this.

Or you know, we can continue to say what we want from this site/service as customers.

So where does a 1981 Trek with 9 speed 105 go? It’s not an early brifter bike. If you put a new small block V8 in a Model A roadster, does that mean it’s no longer a vintage Ford?

That is the crux of the problem. There aren’t enough people interested in this new sub-forum. It will be a dead forum. And there are enough dead or near-dead sub forums around here already. C&V has been a lively sub-forum. Why mess with success?

And why do you think that is the case? Because there isn’t enough unique interest in these bikes as a standalone category.

This is just plain not true. Nobody dismissed my posts about my Lemond Tourmalet. Indeed there was a big thread on Lemonds which is filled with Trek year Lemonds and it was well received. When I made a thread about my Performance Focus , which has a 2x8 brifter drivetrain, it was well received. I saw lots of people asking about their ergo equipped Bianchi’s and Bianchigirl & other experts would cheerfully help out.
This was a ‘big tent’ and a happy place. What you are proposing splits up the big tent.

Speaking of cross pollination, you remove the b(ee) from brift and you're left with rift. That certainly seems to be what this decision/situation has caused.

Ironic that EBB789 has a separate forum while the "Love of English 3 Speed" thread remains in C&V. The "Retro Roadies" should have been left in C&V just to see how this new forum does without it.... Don

What makes C & V great is the people, not the title of the sub-forum.
Very accepting group who allow all ideas, regardless of title. Not sure why you would mess with that
People ask their mechanical questions here too -- because of the people.

I personally don't approve of the forum move, and I think it should be put back the way it was.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more, the more different points of view the better, its what makes this what it is.

Absolutely, any dilution of the secret sauce here will be to the detriment of it all.

Our ability and willingness to embrace so much diversity can be very hard to come by, this will be/is messing with a very good thing that is also very hard to come by.

All that being said, I am glad that you and the powers that be are here and doing what you do, no small task, Tx.

I guess Mr Bike Forums has to ask himself how many members he is willing to lose by banishing content to a Siberia sub-forum on the hopes it may someday grow big enough to serve a real purpose and support itself

I think we should have a poll to have a poll.

WOW. So much weeping and gnashing of teeth all of a sudden.
I have only been here since 2014, so a relative noob I guess. And this is the only "social media" platform I can stomach. I can't count all the major and minor changes that have been made here by admin and IB. One example that comes to mind is when a relatively obscure subforum called "General Cycling" was way down at the bottom of the list and somebody had the brilliant idea to move it right up to the top and it became the powerhouse that it is today. Who here doesn't realize it is all about thread traffic and eyeballs on ads that keeps this place on the interwebz. I have no opinion on this brifter drama as I am hopelessly doomed to 5 speed friction low end bicycles but I can rest assured that Admin can make any changes they see fit and teh biek forooms will be here for the rest of my life

Carry on.

And now we do.

Poll to have a poll on the "Early Brifter Bikes-7,8, and 9 Speed" forum?