Huret Jubilee capacity question.
 

My new to me Raleigh competition came with incredibly cool huret derailleurs. It also came with the 3 pin t.a. crank, which due to the scarcity of rings will be repurposed on my super course 3 speed. It's 42 tooth ring will be excellent.

However I now am using a cyclotourist crank with 26, 46 chainrings. The front mech handles the two rings extremely well. The rear mech shifts through a 14-28 6 speed freewheel beautifully. With the current chainlength I can do 46-28 just fine but I would hesitate to shorten the chain any more. My real issue is that the chain wrap will only work well with the three largest rear cogs on the 26 tooth chainring. Is it prohibitively expensive to get a long cage for this derailleur?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e7ed83cb69.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...709e8dcab2.jpg

Lovely illustration.

Huret Jubilees are notably very light, very beautiful, very fragile, strongly in demand, and very expensive. If I had your bike I would treat it with kid gloves and be careful not to compromise the specifications. The derailleurs will be hard to replace.

Based on the pics shared by Juvela, I think there are basically two versions: short cage and long cage. Based on your photo, I think your bike has the short cage, or "racing bike" version. The limit for the short cage seems to be freewheel 13-24 and chainset 26-53. The capacity (ability to wrap up the chain) is (53-26)+(24-13) = 38 teeth. For the long cage version it's (53-26)+(28-13)=42 teeth. I'm a little doubtful about these capacities, but that's how the arithmetic works, if I'm interpreting correctly. Your gearing is (46-26)+(28-14)=34 teeth, so your gearing should not kill the derailleurs in terms of over stretching it. But if you don't have to shorten the chain, (the tension is adequate on small-small) I would not do it.

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the Sutherland values for the short cage are 24T large cog and 30T wrap

yes, the values posted on the Huret catalogue page are misleading


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13-24 must be extremely conservative. It shifts really well into the 28. I have done some reading and am aware that this is delicate and somewhat valuable. I am pondering putting a suntour on it but I know that will be complicated by the fact that the dropout is made for huret.

Also I never use small-small. My main focus is to not have big, big destroy anything.

Thank you for sharing the Sutherland values. I keep recalling that he stated in his early pages that much of his data is not confirmed by the anufacturer or copied from other wise authoritative sources but was obtained more "practically" (my word, not Howard Sutherland's). I've used the book quite a lot for BB and BB part interchangability, and I have not found anything which does not match my own work.

As far as using the Huret literature as a reference, based on the usual practical skepticism on this and other forums (they say 28? HAAA! I routinely use 32!!), I recently saw something that makes me return to respecting Huret. My Duopar Eco on my 610 Trek Mule has been shifting 46/30 and 13-34 riding on the trainer. I recently re-lubed the chain and saw the cage pulling out in big-big, to a degree I did not like. I saw that Berto quoted Huret that maxsprocket and max capacity are both 36 and I was using a 34 big cog. I changed the freewheel out for first one with max 32 and max 30 and both shifted far better. But both freewheels needed overhauls, so I went to my 13-28 for road use. And I'm a lot more confident that I'm not likely to bend my DuoparEco if I flub up some shifts. So I recommend caution with even more fragile parts, like members of the Jubilee product line.

Lest one may think that all Huret were superlight and fragile, consider the once ubiquitous Alvit, which invaded out shores on the late '60s Varsinental family of bikes, sometimes with French labelling and sometimes as Schwinn-Approved. They certainly met the standards for durability, but of my friends' bikes there were very few that worked well as road bike shifters on a road bike, or a 10-speed Stingray. I recall the comment they work terribly, but they neer really break, so it's hard to justify replacement based on "it's too old."

I think I am going to adapt a suntour and save the fancy stuff. The derailleurs are working well as long as I don't ask too much of them. I have ordered a 44 outer ring for the crank which will drop my top gear to 85 inches. Plenty for this old man. That should make it so I can use all 6 gears in the big ring and the 4 biggest in the small until I figure out a suntour adaptation.

I looked into converting my short Jubile to long. The long cage plates (2233 and 2238) are sometimes available on eBay (though not at the moment), and you also would need the return spring (2239) which is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/28433507994...item4233b10204

very cool

Just checked out a topographic map of Peoria. I'm thinking 13T-22T and 47T-50T. ;)

for you maybe.

Actually I just modified a washer to make the dropout work for an old suntour derailleur.
Most of the roads up and down the bluff were made with no consideration for how steep they are. I am in the older part on the east bluff and routinely drag my 65 yo out of shape body up and down the hills. I did my closest valley to bluff route recently with a 66" gear on a three speed clunker but it was no fun. Low gears for me baby!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57d208b289.jpg

Does this Raleigh Competition have an Huret drop out? There were Jubilee derailleurs that were intended for use with what is now the standard stop placement on the Drop out’s mount, but my Super Tourer (apparently the same production line for the frames) has an Huret drop out. With that Suntour VGT, it looks like the more traditional stop placement.

it is a huret dropout with the 4 o'clock stop. I made a washer that hits that stop and creates a 7 o'clock stop. With that washer I can now use any modern style derailleur.

If you want an option for the Huret dropout, there's always the Huret Challenger rear mech--- I've found it to be smooth-shifting and durable on my Super Course MkII, so now I grab them whenever I come across them. The Jubilee is beautiful to look at, but they seem kind of finicky when it comes to actually shifting!


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3a6670eb47.jpg

did that come in a long cage?

Hmm... good point: not to my knowledge. However the lower pivot point is adjustable to handle either 13-24 or 13-28t max cog sizes. The stated range for the front is 36-53.

No, but the lower knuckle has two cage-mounting holes, one for 24T max, one for 28T.

Tangential: you know you're missing a couple of crankbolts, right? ;)

I run three of six bolts for the inner ring. I've done that for years. I may be dumb.

Saving Weight With Less Chainring Bolts
 

"Hey watch this" "Hold my beer"

I've always carried spare TA chainring bolts - both the bolts for mounting the large ring to the crankarm and the ones for the smaller rings to the large one. They are sooo fragile, I've had a number of them break on and off the road....

Also I've ovalized a number of TA 26T chainrings and have since switched to 28T or 30T which solved the problem.

Back to the topic at hand.

From the 1940's maybe even the 1930's the standard setup for touring gears was a 13/14 to 24/26T freewheel with a 26T granny gear chainring and a 46T-50T large chainring. This was true especially with Huret rear derailleurs which were designed to wrap a lot of chain from the chainrings but not a big gap on the FW cogs.

With the Bike Boom Fad came the advent of "alpine gears" - 14-28T FWs with 40T-52T or 42T-52T chainrings. Simplex RDs with sprung upper pivots could easily handle those sprockets. The Huret Allvit RDs, not so well. The Sveltos less so.

The Jubilee RDs were a take off of the Svelto design and meant for a 24T or 26T maximum size freewheel.

There were a lot of variations in the Huret Jubilee RDs with mostly poorly or undocumented changes. Even Todson the US Huret importer/distributor were usually unaware of the changes.

When they first came out (hit the streets) in 1973, there were 2 version of Jubilees: the most common ones were designed to mount on Huret dropouts with proprietary hangers, a little later they produced ones for Campy style hangers.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff700876bc.jpg

Those for Campy style hangers were listed as "...sur patte de cadre italienne" or just "patte italienne" which meant nothing to cyclists in the US.

Also, there were NO markings on the derailleurs indicating the Ref number.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...652518a808.jpg

Huret dropouts

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7b4b078117.jpg

Campy dropouts

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f9a7f1131f.jpg

no67el mentioned the Huret Challenger RDs. They first appeared on a few Raleighs in 1973. The Huret Allvits had such a poor reputation plus the Challenger bodies were made of stamped sheet metal and looked tinny so we just ignored them.

Jump ahead to 2007, I picked up a 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile frame that was rescued from the dump. The person who sold it to me threw in this 1st generation Challenger RD. I was skeptical but gave it a try. It's the smoothest shifting friction RD I've ever used. That's a 13-30t 7 speed FW. The Jubilee shift levers help too.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2cd93f5f0b.jpg

Anyone curious? PM me I have a bunch of them.

verktyg :50:

you haven't been on Brimfield-Jubilee road!

https://live.staticflickr.com/5635/3...7be6c5_c_d.jpg

this isn't the worst, though.... it's just the easiest to get a photo of.
My commute used to go up a 14% grade, going up out of the Illinois river valley (on Cedar Hills Drive). To some degree, this is typical of many river towns.

I'm thinking that Russell's plan to use a SunTour might be best. My only question is about whether the derailleur hanger is compatible.
edit: I see that this has been addressed....

Steve, also in Peoria

Jubilee long cage on my Competition

https://i.imgur.com/YPFXQQI.jpg

Ouch! But if it's actually named Jubilee, it kinda prompts what derailleur to use.

Photo reminds me of when my wife and I took bikes along on a vacation in NY's Finger Lakes region; riding parallel to the lakes was easy, flattish, but perpendicular to the lakes... watch out!

Dang, I bought a Jubilee set over a decade ago, and not I need to check what I bought, thanks for the decoder images. It was a ebay deal at the time, so I was not choosy
worst case, I would need to fab an adaptor.

The Challenger has grown on me, one bike so equipped. Jockey wheels have more chain noise. Shifts well. Plastic filler at top went AWOL on a ride.

Peoria IL or Peoria AZ? There's some pretty serious hills coming up out of the Illinois River valley, and a 1:1 ratio would sure be nice to have unless you have quads of steel.

Thanks to Verktig for throwing out this info on the Jubilee. Its mostly been on here before but its always nice to see it again as the Jubilee RD has some misinformation about it and compatibility issues associated with it out there.

My current favorite ride is a '75 Moto Grand Jubile that came with the long cage Jubilee RD (and Huret rear drop outs). I have since replaced all the original components with Huret Duopar RD, some unknown Sun Tour FD, and Sun Tour bar end shifters. Its quite a fine shifter over the 40-52 / 14-30 6-speed freewheel gearing.

I bought my first Motobecane Grand Jubile new in 1974, and it came with a short cage Jubilee with14-26 rear grouping. Over the years I swapped that out for 14-28 freewheel and a Stronglight 99 crank with 36-52 gearing, utilizing a Jubilee long cage mech. It served me well.

I've used a couple Huret Duopars over the years and have found them to be a dependable rock-solid RD. But I don't tend to mash gears or ask more of them than they were indended.

Question: It's been a few years since I've used Huret derailleurs, and my entire stock of them was lost in the fire. Looking at those cages, they appear (note, appear) to be identical, or at least damn close to identical to the cages used by a Huret Allvit. Are they interchangeable?

The reason I ask, is that the Schwinn Approved Allvits came in a long cage version. I remember both of my Schwinn Super Sports having them. If they are interchangeable, you could have an answer here, just find yourself an old Schwinn Approved model.