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Anybody remember Weltmeisters?

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Anybody remember Weltmeisters?

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Old 11-04-24 | 11:13 PM
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Anybody remember Weltmeisters?





These wood filled rims were the shizz in the early/ mid 70s. As were the Hi E hubs (40 spoke rear, 32 front) I’m lacing them to. “Made in Western Germany”!
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Old 11-05-24 | 02:23 AM
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Scheeren Standard were also light wood-filled rims, but not crazy-light like the WM.

A shop I worked at in the '90s bought a few pairs of Weltmeisters from a local importer who sorta went out of business but had stock squirreled away... is how I remember the story. But these decades-old rims just showed up, NOS, unused and for a good reason, they were 20-spoke! OK maybe I'm remembering that part wrong, maybe they were 18-spoke, which is even crazier, but at least a hub to lace them to exists (namely any 36-hole hub, skip half the holes). How many 20-spoke hubs can you name? Not counting Mavic Helium, since those aren't period-correct. Anyway, these WMs were a spoking that no sane person would use on a sub-300 g. rim. I dunno what ended up happening with those. If they were built up, I hope it was for a wall-hanger.
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Old 11-05-24 | 04:04 AM
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I have seen the 20 hole rims, maybe for pursuit wheels with a 40 hole or custom drilled hub.
i have a number of NOS pairs of the Standard rims, also very light. Way back I used a set on the track, I could look like Patrick Sercu at one the “6” Day Winter races. Sercu from time to time would team with Eddy. People forget that even successful racers would ride the track over the Winter to keep the cash flowing and the legs moving.

mod road racers doing the same? Nah. Times are different.

and they polish up to a mirror finish.
also sometimes rebranded to Weinmann and Milremo way back.
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Old 11-05-24 | 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
Scheeren Standard were also light wood-filled rims, but not crazy-light like the WM.

A shop I worked at in the '90s bought a few pairs of Weltmeisters from a local importer who sorta went out of business but had stock squirreled away... is how I remember the story. But these decades-old rims just showed up, NOS, unused and for a good reason, they were 20-spoke! OK maybe I'm remembering that part wrong, maybe they were 18-spoke, which is even crazier, but at least a hub to lace them to exists (namely any 36-hole hub, skip half the holes). How many 20-spoke hubs can you name? Not counting Mavic Helium, since those aren't period-correct. Anyway, these WMs were a spoking that no sane person would use on a sub-300 g. rim. I dunno what ended up happening with those. If they were built up, I hope it was for a wall-hanger.
Don't use a 36h hub as an 18h, the opposite spoke holes will not align.

Mavic Heliums are 26h front, 28h rear.
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Old 11-05-24 | 06:46 AM
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The real PIA about these rims is after built, trued and stressed, you need to file/ grind the nipples flat for a smooth tire bed before gluing. the wood internals prevent the nipple heads from disappearing in the hollow.
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Old 11-05-24 | 06:53 AM
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NOS Wood-filled vintage tubulars + HiE hubs = Pure C&V Joy. What's not to love!
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Old 11-05-24 | 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
The real PIA about these rims is after built, trued and stressed, you need to file/ grind the nipples flat for a smooth tire bed before gluing. the wood internals prevent the nipple heads from disappearing in the hollow.
I wonder if you used tape, such as Effetto Mariposa Carogna, that the need to file the nipple heads could be avoided?
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Old 11-05-24 | 07:06 AM
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Bikes: N-1, 1975 Paramount, Hi-E Cosmopolitan, Argon 18 Electron Pro track, Parlee RZ-7, State 4130 and others

Destined to be mounted on a super rare Cosmopolitan, if you know what that is.
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Old 11-05-24 | 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
Destined to be mounted on a super rare Cosmopolitan, if you know what that is.
Hi-E Cosmopolitan?
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Old 11-05-24 | 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500




These wood filled rims were the shizz in the early/ mid 70s. As were the Hi E hubs (40 spoke rear, 32 front) I’m lacing them to. “Made in Western Germany”!
-) It appears that you're using the wrong nipples to lace these up. The nipple heads should be flat and smooth along the rim where the tire glues on. Yours are protruding out and the tire won't sit (glue down) properly.
It also looks as though the nipples aren't long enough where you can adjust them with a spoke wrench. I have several sets of these on my early track bikes (and spare spokes somewhere).

I'll try and get a photo of mine that show the correct nipple heads plus the length etc.

Last edited by 1oldtrackie; 11-05-24 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 11-05-24 | 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 1oldtrackie
-) It appears that you're using the wrong nipples to lace these up. The nipple heads should be flat and smooth along the rim where the tire glues on. Yours are protruding out and the tire won't sit (glue down) properly.
It also looks as though the nipples aren't long enough where you can adjust them with a spoke wrench. I have several sets of these on my early track bikes (and spare spokes somewhere).

I'll try and get a photo of mine that show the correct nipple heads plus the length etc.

yes, I know, thanks. The prior spokes needed to be replaced and I also replaced the old, but still serviceable Weltmeister rim since I had one. The prior builder ground down the brass nipple heads part way, and I plan to do the same. Plenty of room on the nipple shafts to true with a proper spoke wrench, as long as they don’t seize, and I prepped them with spoke dope, so I expect I’ll be good.
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Old 11-05-24 | 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
yes, I know, thanks. The prior spokes needed to be replaced and I also replaced the old, but still serviceable Weltmeister rim since I had one. The prior builder ground down the brass nipple heads part way, and I plan to do the same. Plenty of room on the nipple shafts to true with a proper spoke wrench, as long as they don’t seize, and I prepped them with spoke dope, so I expect I’ll be good.
Originally Posted by Trakhak
Hi-E Cosmopolitan?
Yep. 13 were built from what I understand, though 19 serial numbered bb shells were produced. Mine is #11.
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Old 11-05-24 | 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mackers
Don't use a 36h hub as an 18h, the opposite spoke holes will not align.
"People saying a thing cannot be done should stay out of the way of the people actually doing it"

Yeah I know you didn't say it couldn't be done, you just said "don't". But since I and many others have done them that way with no problems to report, I can say that's a "soft don't" at most.

Most of the wheels I've seen done that way were fronts, laced radially. In that case the misalignment between right and left holes is a total non-issue.

But even when you cross them, the misaligned spoke holes only means some of the spokes seem a tad short and some a tad long, but the wheel builds up fine and I don't believe there is any strength or durability problem, they ride just like any wheels.

I'll listen to any evidence to the contrary. I'll admit my experience with them is limited to two wheels I built long ago and a few others I've seen on friends bikes or other competitors at the track or time trials.
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Old 11-05-24 | 01:36 PM
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If you use Hi-E hubs, avoid the under-engineered front Skewers Of Death.
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Old 11-05-24 | 05:25 PM
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Polishing the aluminum by hand is slow, but with enough work it approaches chrome in polished shine. Hard to be patient, but after all, it is November.

. Very satisfying after how it looked when I got it.
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Old 11-05-24 | 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 1oldtrackie
-) It appears that you're using the wrong nipples to lace these up. The nipple heads should be flat and smooth along the rim where the tire glues on. Yours are protruding out and the tire won't sit (glue down) properly.
It also looks as though the nipples aren't long enough where you can adjust them with a spoke wrench. I have several sets of these on my early track bikes (and spare spokes somewhere).

I'll try and get a photo of mine that show the correct nipple heads plus the length etc.
there does appear to be a mixing of spike nipple brands there- the one with the dome end are better than the other.
typical back in the day was after tie and soldier, grind the slot away.
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Old 11-06-24 | 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
Polishing the aluminum by hand is slow, but with enough work it approaches chrome in polished shine. Hard to be patient, but after all, it is November.

. Very satisfying after how it looked when I got it.
WOW! Very nice!

IMO, polished tubes and painted lugs, maybe with a contrasting color on the rivet heads, would look really interesting--- but not very original. Considering the rarity of a HiE Cosmopolitan, restoring to original seems to be the most sensible thing to do. However, as presented above, I find the frame very appealing.
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Old 11-06-24 | 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
Destined to be mounted on a super rare Cosmopolitan, if you know what that is.

-----

Who knew?!?!

Helen Gurley Brown made bicycles.




-----
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Old 11-06-24 | 09:48 AM
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these rims were made for track, don't have sidewalls made for braking.
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Old 11-06-24 | 12:20 PM
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The rims were made for road racing. Rim brakes will work just fine. The nipples should be about 3/4" long. If yours are too short, get the right ones. Personally, I would not use aluminum nipples. And there is no need to ruin the nipple screwdriver slots by grinding them down. The sew-ups will glue (or tape) up just fine right over them despite the nipple head "protruding", so don't worry about it, and don't ruin the nipples.

Amazing how much BS lore about the past is so readily believed.


This 36-spoke Scheeren Weltmeister front wheel is lighter than my carbon front wheel, with tires mounted.

If that Hi-E frame is not in the esoteric components thread, it should be!
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Old 11-06-24 | 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76
The rims were made for road racing. Rim brakes will work just fine. The nipples should be about 3/4" long. If yours are too short, get the right ones. Personally, I would not use aluminum nipples. And there is no need to ruin the nipple screwdriver slots by grinding them down. The sew-ups will glue (or tape) up just fine right over them despite the nipple head "protruding", so don't worry about it, and don't ruin the nipples.

Amazing how much BS lore about the past is so readily believed.


This 36-spoke Scheeren Weltmeister front wheel is lighter than my carbon front wheel, with tires mounted.

If that Hi-E frame is not in the esoteric components thread, it should be!
for road use with road tires leaving the nipples as provided is fine. For track use when Clement No.1’s or 3’s ruled supreme, dressing the nipples I think is best. I have six pairs of Scheeren rimmed wheels.
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Old 11-06-24 | 01:02 PM
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"Amazing how much BS lore about the past is so readily believed."
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Old 11-06-24 | 03:05 PM
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"und auf der Bahn". means ; "and on the TRACK....."




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Old 11-06-24 | 09:14 PM
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Interesting old advert. Newspaper, Magazine or race program?
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Old 11-11-24 | 09:14 AM
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This would be the correct spokes for the rims where you can see how they sit down in the slot and become smooth for the glueing of the tire.

Most nipples today are flat on the bottom so they sit against a flat washer (looks like yours are maybe like this). The correct ones for these Scheeren rims are angled.


Hope this helps.




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