Overrated Paramount part 2
03-06-06 | 03:59 PM
#51
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 2
From: Boulder, Colorado
Bikes: Cinelli Supercoursa 69, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Mondonico Diamond Extra 05, Coors Light Greg Lemond (built by Scapin) 88, Scapin MTB, Stumpjumper 83, Specialized Stumpjumper M4, Lemond Poprad 2001
Originally Posted by Poguemahone
"The Peugeot PX-10 which now has reverential status was always a second tier bike back in the 70's. "
Given the racing record of the PX10 during the sixties and seventies, it's kinda hard to think of it as second-tier, sorry. The Peugeot team rode stock Pugs through that period, albeit frames made in a special workshop connected to the factory (and later located in Paris). The equipment loadout on team bikes was exactly that of the stock PXs of the period, not Campy as some posters have stated. Stronglight/Simplex/Mafac/Normandy. Given victories in the TDF, World Championships, and others, I am lost to see how any poster can refer to these bikes as "second tier".
I'm not sure which is the most disturbing aspect of these threads... the way folks keep poking at a single poster (albeit one with a contrary opinion and a irritating demeanor) or the way a few Schwinn lovers feel obligated to run down the PX10 and it's successors, sometimes with made up "facts". Most of you guys are pretty level, though, and I do appreciate the wealth of info some of you bring to these threads. I just wish the start behind these threads was not so negative.
As a plus, some of the statements by posters in these threads has got me digging a bit deeper into the history of both bike models.
Given the racing record of the PX10 during the sixties and seventies, it's kinda hard to think of it as second-tier, sorry. The Peugeot team rode stock Pugs through that period, albeit frames made in a special workshop connected to the factory (and later located in Paris). The equipment loadout on team bikes was exactly that of the stock PXs of the period, not Campy as some posters have stated. Stronglight/Simplex/Mafac/Normandy. Given victories in the TDF, World Championships, and others, I am lost to see how any poster can refer to these bikes as "second tier".
I'm not sure which is the most disturbing aspect of these threads... the way folks keep poking at a single poster (albeit one with a contrary opinion and a irritating demeanor) or the way a few Schwinn lovers feel obligated to run down the PX10 and it's successors, sometimes with made up "facts". Most of you guys are pretty level, though, and I do appreciate the wealth of info some of you bring to these threads. I just wish the start behind these threads was not so negative.
As a plus, some of the statements by posters in these threads has got me digging a bit deeper into the history of both bike models.
03-06-06 | 04:52 PM
#52
Vello Kombi, baby
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,188
Likes: 17
From: Je suis ici
Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10
Fair enough. For the record, Peugeot's special workshops began in 1974, near as I can figure. The PX's prior to that were made in a different area... I've been unable to confirm exactly when the Paris shop began producing team bikes, however. I have read interviews with Eddy M. stating he rode a stock Peugeot during his tenure with the Peugeot team... haven't been able to figure where the frames he (and Simpson and Pigneon) rode were made, but they're quite clearly set up in the stock PX10 manner.
I've a 67 PX, and the workmanship on it is quite excellent. This is, however, prior to the boom bikes, when production was ramped up. The later examples I have are not as nice, I'll admit, but at least some of that is attributable to the shape I found 'em in. The P-mounts I've found haven't been in any better shape (and too tiny, alas. I would very much like one, and we're working on that. Scooper's pockets appear to be deeper than mine-- or he's willing to take out that second mortgage).
As Lotek states, this is no pissing contest. We're talking about some remarkable bikes here, each with a unique heritage and cachet. They're both quite likable, excellent, and worthy, though in different ways.
I've a 67 PX, and the workmanship on it is quite excellent. This is, however, prior to the boom bikes, when production was ramped up. The later examples I have are not as nice, I'll admit, but at least some of that is attributable to the shape I found 'em in. The P-mounts I've found haven't been in any better shape (and too tiny, alas. I would very much like one, and we're working on that. Scooper's pockets appear to be deeper than mine-- or he's willing to take out that second mortgage).
As Lotek states, this is no pissing contest. We're talking about some remarkable bikes here, each with a unique heritage and cachet. They're both quite likable, excellent, and worthy, though in different ways.
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03-06-06 | 07:16 PM
#53
For England.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: flyover country
Bikes: alp d'huez, giant ocr2, peugeot versailles, peugeot pkn10
Originally Posted by Poguemahone
Fair enough. For the record, Peugeot's special workshops began in 1974, near as I can figure. The PX's prior to that were made in a different area... I've been unable to confirm exactly when the Paris shop began producing team bikes, however. I have read interviews with Eddy M. stating he rode a stock Peugeot during his tenure with the Peugeot team... haven't been able to figure where the frames he (and Simpson and Pigneon) rode were made, but they're quite clearly set up in the stock PX10 manner.
I've a 67 PX, and the workmanship on it is quite excellent. This is, however, prior to the boom bikes, when production was ramped up. The later examples I have are not as nice, I'll admit, but at least some of that is attributable to the shape I found 'em in. The P-mounts I've found haven't been in any better shape (and too tiny, alas. I would very much like one, and we're working on that. Scooper's pockets appear to be deeper than mine-- or he's willing to take out that second mortgage).
As Lotek states, this is no pissing contest. We're talking about some remarkable bikes here, each with a unique heritage and cachet. They're both quite likable, excellent, and worthy, though in different ways.
I've a 67 PX, and the workmanship on it is quite excellent. This is, however, prior to the boom bikes, when production was ramped up. The later examples I have are not as nice, I'll admit, but at least some of that is attributable to the shape I found 'em in. The P-mounts I've found haven't been in any better shape (and too tiny, alas. I would very much like one, and we're working on that. Scooper's pockets appear to be deeper than mine-- or he's willing to take out that second mortgage).
As Lotek states, this is no pissing contest. We're talking about some remarkable bikes here, each with a unique heritage and cachet. They're both quite likable, excellent, and worthy, though in different ways.
03-06-06 | 08:08 PM
#54
Vello Kombi, baby
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,188
Likes: 17
From: Je suis ici
Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10
"How much does your 1967 PX10 weigh?"
I've no idea. I don't know the weight of most of my bikes, nor do I have computers/mileage meters on any of 'em. Find I just can't bring myself to care about this stuff, just like to ride. The only PX I know the weight of is a fixied 73 PX, which comes in at sub 17 pounds. I know 'cause I was curious at the weight difference of another fixie, a UO8... the difference was about 2 lbs... the steel cranks and rims were replaced on the UO...
I've no idea. I don't know the weight of most of my bikes, nor do I have computers/mileage meters on any of 'em. Find I just can't bring myself to care about this stuff, just like to ride. The only PX I know the weight of is a fixied 73 PX, which comes in at sub 17 pounds. I know 'cause I was curious at the weight difference of another fixie, a UO8... the difference was about 2 lbs... the steel cranks and rims were replaced on the UO...
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03-07-06 | 01:10 PM
#55
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 4,435
From: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Originally Posted by Scooper
Tim,
It went for $1,213, and I'm the lucky winner.
It went for $1,213, and I'm the lucky winner.
And it is always a good thing when a classic beauty gets a new lease on life - whether it's a Paramount, a PX-10, a Raleigh, or whatever. We should all keep in mind that we, the folks who appreciate the bikes that get talked about in the Classic & Vintage forum, are a heck of a lot more alike than different, bike-wise.
Hey, can't we all just get along? Except, of course, for Lambert or Windsor fans - you people are hopeless.
Warning: that last sentence was a joke. Please don't flame me.
03-11-06 | 03:18 PM
#56
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 94
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Originally Posted by luker
wow! We want some pictures, when you get it!
I spent twelve hours on the road yesterday picking it up from the seller, but it was worth every minute of the trip and every penny of the price. The frame is absolutely mint; it could have come out of the factory yesterday, and it fits me like a glove.
There are a few things that I plan to change. The rear derailleur is Le Tour - Schwinn Approved, and I'll replace it with a contemporary Campy Gran Turismo derailleur, and will probably replace the brakes with contemporary Campy Record sidepulls. I also will have the wheels rebuilt with Mavic clincher rims.
All in all, I feel like I stole it. It belongs in a museum.
Last edited by Scooper; 03-11-06 at 05:00 PM.
03-11-06 | 05:50 PM
#58
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Nice. The Gran Tourism is a hunk-o-junk boat anchor. Get the right chain length (just enough chain to handle the large/large combo) and a Nuovo Record will probably work (depends on chainring range). Or a Rally (but equally iffy). Campagnolo brakes will barely fit the touring model with 27 inch wheels with a dropbolt in the rear, and a little filling to the slots of the front to drop the shoes.
03-11-06 | 06:06 PM
#59
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Bikes: 2018 Breezer Greenway, 2011 Raleigh International, 3 - '73 World Voyageurs, Trek 700
There is no way anyone can convince me that, that bike is overrated!! Beautiful!
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2018 Breezer Greenway
2011 Raleigh International
'73 World Voyageurs -
Proud owner of all three colors made! Orange, Blue , Yellow .
2018 Breezer Greenway
2011 Raleigh International
'73 World Voyageurs -
Proud owner of all three colors made! Orange, Blue , Yellow .
03-11-06 | 06:23 PM
#60
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 94
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Originally Posted by dbakl
Nice. The Gran Tourism is a hunk-o-junk boat anchor. Get the right chain length (just enough chain to handle the large/large combo) and a Nuovo Record will probably work (depends on chainring range). Or a Rally (but equally iffy). Campagnolo brakes will barely fit the touring model with 27 inch wheels with a dropbolt in the rear, and a little filling to the slots of the front to drop the shoes.
Thanks everybody. This one's definitely a keeper.
03-11-06 | 06:37 PM
#61
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 903
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Bikes: 2018 Breezer Greenway, 2011 Raleigh International, 3 - '73 World Voyageurs, Trek 700
The Le Tour derailleur is a rebadged Crane which was the first of the Dura Ace rear derailleurs. It is very smooth and works great with the barcons. I'm pretty sure some of the Paramounts came with the Le Tour on them right around '74 or '75.
__________________
2018 Breezer Greenway
2011 Raleigh International
'73 World Voyageurs -
Proud owner of all three colors made! Orange, Blue , Yellow .
2018 Breezer Greenway
2011 Raleigh International
'73 World Voyageurs -
Proud owner of all three colors made! Orange, Blue , Yellow .
03-13-06 | 11:03 PM
#62
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 15
From: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Rivendell A.Homer Hilsen, Paramount P13, (4) Falcon bicycles, Mondia Special, Rodriguez Tandem
I also wanted to replace the original centerpulls with Campy on my P15 but I rode around on them awhile and grew to like them. Get some new hoods and Koolstop pads, take the calipers apart and clean off any rust on the steel bits and polish the aluminum parts and they'll look pretty damn and stop as fast as you want.
03-14-06 | 12:43 PM
#63
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 94
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Originally Posted by MKahrl
I also wanted to replace the original centerpulls with Campy on my P15 but I rode around on them awhile and grew to like them. Get some new hoods and Koolstop pads, take the calipers apart and clean off any rust on the steel bits and polish the aluminum parts and they'll look pretty damn and stop as fast as you want.
So far, I've ridden the bike twice between rainstorms, and it might be my imagination but the looks I've gotten from pedestrians and other cyclists make me feel like I'm driving a pimpmobile.
03-14-06 | 01:27 PM
#64
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 4,435
From: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Originally Posted by MKahrl
I also wanted to replace the original centerpulls with Campy on my P15 but I rode around on them awhile and grew to like them. Get some new hoods and Koolstop pads, take the calipers apart and clean off any rust on the steel bits and polish the aluminum parts and they'll look pretty damn and stop as fast as you want.
So I got a pair of Dia-Compe center pulls from Rivendell - perfect length for the back, but coming to a stop sign at the bottom of a hill (there should be a law against those) I discovered that the stopping power was, shall we say, inadequate. 
Change to some Kool Stops - major improvement. The combinaton squealed like crazy for a few rides, but that went away.The only reason I am not insanely jealous of you, Scooper, is because your new ride is too small for me. Man, is that a sweet-looking machine - and a terrific riding machine, too.
As for it being in a museum, well, in a way it is, thanks to your pics.
03-14-06 | 02:25 PM
#65
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,687
Likes: 12
From: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
hey Scooper,
someone just posted NOS in the wrapper Schwinn Paramount tubular rims,
they have as much shine as your bike.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7226385034
me? I'm seriously envious of your new 2nd tier bike. Tell you what, I have a
1st tier Puegot UE8 that I would be willing to trade for. . . . .
Wait, nevermind it's a 61cm frame. . . sorry Scooper
you're gonna have to wait to get that 1st tier bike!
marty
someone just posted NOS in the wrapper Schwinn Paramount tubular rims,
they have as much shine as your bike.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7226385034
me? I'm seriously envious of your new 2nd tier bike. Tell you what, I have a
1st tier Puegot UE8 that I would be willing to trade for. . . . .
Wait, nevermind it's a 61cm frame. . . sorry Scooper
you're gonna have to wait to get that 1st tier bike!
marty
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03-14-06 | 03:16 PM
#66
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 94
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Originally Posted by lotek
hey Scooper,
someone just posted NOS in the wrapper Schwinn Paramount tubular rims,
they have as much shine as your bike.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7226385034
me? I'm seriously envious of your new 2nd tier bike. Tell you what, I have a
1st tier Puegot UE8 that I would be willing to trade for. . . . .
Wait, nevermind it's a 61cm frame. . . sorry Scooper
you're gonna have to wait to get that 1st tier bike!
marty
someone just posted NOS in the wrapper Schwinn Paramount tubular rims,
they have as much shine as your bike.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7226385034
me? I'm seriously envious of your new 2nd tier bike. Tell you what, I have a
1st tier Puegot UE8 that I would be willing to trade for. . . . .
Wait, nevermind it's a 61cm frame. . . sorry Scooper
you're gonna have to wait to get that 1st tier bike!
marty
I've already ordered some Mavic Open Pro clincher rims from Harris. I want to keep the high flange Campy hubs, so now I have to decide whether to turn the wheel project over to a local wheelbuilder or do it myself. I'm leaning toward doing it myself.My 2nd tier bike will do nicely, thanks.
03-15-06 | 11:15 AM
#68
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,687
Likes: 12
From: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
size, and componentry and it looked almost NOS.
those brakes alone sell for up to $1200 iirc.
marty
those brakes alone sell for up to $1200 iirc.
marty
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03-15-06 | 11:24 AM
#69
Keeper of the SLDB
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,577
Likes: 6
From: Springfield, MO
Bikes: '75 Schwinn Paramount P-10, '86 Ritchey Commando, '87 Schwinn Cimarron, '91 Trek 990, '87 Schwinn High Sierra, '73 Schwinn Super Sport, '4? Schwinn New World, '76 Swing Bike.
Originally Posted by dogsridewith
Yes, congrats on that good scoop. Anyone have idea of why that other chrome one recently went for three times higher price? (Besides logo-less Campy brakes?)
Bob Hufford
Springfield, MO
03-16-06 | 04:05 PM
#71
Freewheel Medic
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,578
Likes: 3,329
From: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
At that price it should be personally delivered.
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
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Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
03-16-06 | 04:31 PM
#72
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,687
Likes: 12
From: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Bet it does, Track is where Schwinn made their name.
I don't recall seeing all that many full chrome pista frames so
my guess is it ain't all that common
Marty
I don't recall seeing all that many full chrome pista frames so
my guess is it ain't all that common
Marty
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03-16-06 | 04:31 PM
#73
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,687
Likes: 12
From: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
whoa, $175 shipping on top of the price?
steep.
steep.
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