EraserXIV

Hey I was wondering if anyone could date this Shogun 600 and if anyone had any information regarding it.
It doesn't have a two-tone color scheme, so I'm not sure if it was Miyata built... anyone else have ideas?

Also, do those seem like 700c or 27" tires to you? I don't see gum color tire walls, so I'm thinking it may be 700c... but I may be entirely wrong.

cb400bill

Nice looking bike for $125.

EraserXIV

Haha the power of google, I'm guessing you already found the CL listing.

Yeah I've already scheduled to pick the bike up from the seller because I was afraid to let a nice deal like this slip by. Normally I'd do some more research, but this was a little too sweet to pass up so I just jumped on it.

Anyways, now that I have secured the bike, I was wondering if you guys could tell me a bit about my newly acquired toy.

RobbieTunes

Probably 83 or 84, probably a Panasonic-made frame, Champion #5 tubing or better.
I never saw a Shogun without 27's. I never saw much rust on one, either, good paint jobs.

To me, they are the best source for single speed frames. That one looks too good for that.
Ride it, and let us know.

EraserXIV

Can't meet up with the seller until Tuesday, but according to him, it's double butted Cr-Mol and is really light. I think it may be a couple steps above Champion #5, if I recall, Champion #5 was not double butted.

PunctualAlex

I think the 600 was Tange Infinity, double-butted seamed CrMo (Tange Prestige/1/2 were not seamed).
I've had 4 Shoguns- 3 had 700c wheels and one has 26"
Do me a personal favor: if you get it, post pictures and lots of them.

EraserXIV

Sure thing. I'll get pictures up ASAP, but it probably won't be until next weekend. I'll also have a nice 1986 Miyata 710 by then too, and I'll have pics of that too.

Also, I was wondering, which model Shoguns do you have? Which had 700c wheels and what year were they?

PunctualAlex

I had an 800, a 1000, and a Katana. The 800 and the 1000 are both Tange 2 road bikes and I'm not sure on the year, but I have both frames in the basement so I'll check tomorrow. The Katana, unfortunately, went out the door this morning with its new owner, and I'm not sure what the year was.

kpug505

Just curious...Did your Katana have a "triple triangle" frame design like a GT?

RobbieTunes

I had a Cro-Mo 400, Tange Champion #5. It would stand to reason the 600 would be at least a step up. My bike had been outside for 15 years, and the frame cleaned up almost like new.

I think the triple triangle is the bomb. Good luck on the Shogun.

PunctualAlex

Yes it did!

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage-bicycles-whats-worth-appraisals/536002-shogun-katana-triple-triangle-12sp-tange-infinity-shimano-light-action.html

It was a great bike, but I'm too young to be a collector and I just wasn't putting the miles on it- just having a heart attack every time someone asked to borrow it.

kpug505

Awesome! I have a Nashbar Alpha Road 5000 that looks very similar. I always wondered what company actually built it. I assume it was whatever company built the Shoguns....Maybe Panasonic?

Freerojo

I have a mint Cr-MO 400 as well circa 1985, it has Champion #5 pipes. I am curious if the lack of double butted was because I have the largest frame (tall guy), did they do stuff like that?

top506

Pretty sure my Daughters Cr-Mo 400 is Tange Champion #2. I'll check in the morning.
Top

EraserXIV

Maybe it varies by year?

Had to delay the transaction with the seller for the 600, but I should have it by tomorrow. I'll post up the info for sure.

top506

Could be, but I can confirm that the one in the barn is Champion #2.
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bibliobob

I have a Golden Arrow equipped Shogun 600 (1983-86?), and it has Tange 900 (double butted Cro-Mo) tubing.

EraserXIV

+1

Just picked the bike up today, sounds like we have the exact same bike. It's equipped with Tange 900 (double butted Cro-Mo), on the decal it only says tubes, so I'm guessing the fork and stays are mangalite or hi-tensile. Bit of a disappointment, was hoping for something like Champion #1, or atleast #2. However #2 and 900 are comparable in weight, just that 900 was seamed. Tange 900 is still good stuff so I guess there's nothing to complain about.

It is equipped with the Shimano-105 "Golden Arrow" components which puts it between 1983 and 1986. It has 27" x 1 wheels, Araya Rims. Does anyone know how to tell if the rims are alloy or steel?

I'm thinking it might turn out to be a turnaround bike. I'll clean and fix it up a bit and re-sell. I'm thinking of putting the money towards a Miyata 310 that my friend has and turn into my daily commuter. The 310 should be a tad bit lighter, but it comes with 700c tires which is the main difference.

Pictures to come later.

bibliobob do you mind posting pictures of yours so we can compare?



EDIT: Just weighed it using the bathroom scale method. Looks to be 24lbs on the dot. Pretty light IMO. Maybe the fork and stays aren't hi-tensile... mangalite probably

EraserXIV

Pictures with my cell phone, so excuse the quality.

rotharpunc

looks nice!

EraserXIV

Damn, the more I look at the bike the more I want to keep it. But since money doesn't grow on trees, it's either this or a miyata 310.

I'm sure when I get my Miyata 310 I'll be happy with my choice though. Only thing is then I'll have 2 Miyatas, a 710 and a 310, and what's the fun in that! I keep thinking I should mix it up a bit, but my wallet keeps saying NO!

rotharpunc

I wold keep the Shogun over a Miyata 310

EraserXIV

I was thinking that but the Miyata is 700c which is a lot easier to find tires for.

It also has the Miyata triple butted frame, which doesn't make much of a difference in weight. Only re-sell value would be higher as opposed to Tange 900 which has a reputation of being "mass-production quality".

Otherwise, components are pretty much on par... check out the specifications chart for the 310:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img119.jpg

top506

1) You can't have too many Miyatas! I've had a 312, and currently stable a 512, Triplecross, and the 710 I just posted. I'd add a 912 and/or a Ridgerunner anytime.
2) The Shoguns are nice bikes as well. If dough is the issue dance with what brung you and keep it.
3) Figure out a way to keep 'em both.
Top
(whose 12 step program doesn't preclude enabling the addictions of others......)

EraserXIV

fixed the bike up and just flipped it today for $180.

ran into a pretty rude customer today though.
she called me over the phone and told me straight up that she would do it for $100. I told her I could only do $150 at the lowest because of what I put into it. she then wanted me to meet half way at $130, but I told her that the price is pretty firm so she agrees.

Then we meet up and she brings a friend along. together they pretend to inspect the bike and then she turns to me and says that she only brought $100 and that's the best she can do it for because of the shape the bike is in. i told her politely that the bike is in great shape and $150 is actually a steal for her. she insists on the $100 because she says that's all she brought. this is when i start to get irritated. I told her we AGREED over the phone to do $150, but she only brings along $100? Clearly she was expecting to con me out of my bike. She then tells me, and I kid you not, word for word, "I didn't agree to ***** over the phone." Now I'm really irritated. I tell her, "Excuse me? You're CURSING at me now?" Wow, who the hell does she think she is. We just met, we're complete strangers, she's the one who wants the bike from me, and she finds it appropriate to curse at me? Seriously, people these days are incredible... I tell he firmly, $150 is the best I can do. She then turns to her friend and asks for some money and she says that she can do $130. I say no, I can't do it for $130. She then pretends to inspect the bike again and she says the tires are bad and need to be replaced, the derailleur is bad and needs to be replaced. I tell her she's wrong, and explain to her the bike is in great shape and is a really nice bike. I tell her and her friend that it's decent quality stuff, and that Tange 900 double butted chromium-molybdenum makes a nice light frame. Then her friend turns to me and says "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?" Oh... now I'm really irritated. I give him a lecture about how I DO know what the means, and that I'm in medical school and can probably tell him a lot more about molybdenum and metal alloys and how they act on a molecular level. I bet he couldn't even find molybdenum on a periodic table if I asked him to. He pretends he knows a lot about bikes and says that $100 is all the bike is worth and he's doing me a favor by taking it off my hands for $130 and that my original asking price of $180 was ridiculous. I tell them I don't even want to sell the bike to them anymore even if they did offer me $150. So I take the bike and ride away. And then I hear them start laughing behind me.

Wow. kids these days. I ended up selling it to a guy who's really going to appreciate it. He was a really nice guy. He inspected the bike, told me straight up, and correctly what he thought about it. I even stayed around and talked to him about bikes and C&V for an extra 20 minutes even after we made the transaction. Told me he rode his Fuji Del Ray 56 miles this morning. Really nice guy, knows his stuff, and I might not even minded selling it to him for $130 if he asked me.

I realized that being a nice person goes a LONG way these days. Really sets you apart for the other people you meet.