I'll answer the way most questions of this type deserve to be answered: It depends. Depends on the individual bike in question and the era it's from. Those might be two of the top half dozen or so most under-appreciated builders, at least as far as the prices they tend to fetch is concerned. But they could be stylistically quite different. I don't know what gave you the idea I'm not hot on Ron Cooper - Ron Cooper is one of the greats. Among English builders, he belongs in the same discussion with Bill Hurlow, which is saying a lot. If I had to pick sight unseen, I'd probably pick the Cooper. Just another notch more bespoke, so to speak. And Grandis's are not super rare, so another one usually comes along sooner or later. But I might take a mid-70's Grandis Superleggera over a more clean-but-basic Cooper. I might buy both ('cause you really can't go wrong either way, which is good news for you). It depends ...

thanks again, well, i am in a dillema. i think ill just go and look at both even though they are kind of far, i think it might be worth it.

FWIW, I just viewed the Colnago video interview. Mind you it's an English dubbed version but he definitely refers to welding at Gloria. Also, the pre-1970 segments use the first person in statements, such as "I built a frame for..." while as of the 1970's he uses the collective "we". To me, the "I" references seem to indicate when he was actually building frames, while "we" refers to the company and a period when he was no longer building frames personally.

Reading too much into the pronouns, maybe? And no one disputed that he did/learned welding at Gloria, as far as I recall, just whether he actually built frames. I'm inclined to go with Citoyen du Monde on this issue. Plus, Ernesto is perfectly capable of bending the truth. As I've said, I wouldn't be surprised either way on the "did he or didn't he build frames" question - and I suspect we'll never know.

He never states that he built frames, but rather that he welded for Gloria. It could be another case like one of the Masi gofers parlaying his "work" at Masi into "framebuilding experience" at Masi. Just because you welded for Gloria does not a frame builder of you make.

I own one a later Pogliaghi and have done much research on the great steel Italian bikes of old. Mine is a Basso built frame that is identical to Rossin frames at the same time. It was probably built by someone other that the Basso Bros or Mario. This is due to all the networking that traditionally brought artisans into the industry. Master frame builder,Sante Pogliagi, was in the middle of this network up until the early 80s. This network of artisans and their apprentices included Earnesto Colnago. I understand the Colnago name to be behind designs proven to work. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the overwhelming majority of Colnagos weren't torched by Ernesto. I do, however, know Sante Pogliagi made at least one of Merckx's prize frames. Mario Rossin as well. Not all Pogliagis are by Sante even while he was building, nor do they all have the Pogliaghi name. That goes for just about any Italian Master Frame builders' brands. The proven techniques and materials under master supervision in old Italy are what make Italian bikes liked by so many. Don't get caught up in a name, because the chances are that the well known head honchos didnt build the frame you scored, and thats okay. What a neat network to have been a part of though. The marketing is just that and Ernesto was good at knowing what he had and knowing how to package them to sell and building a reputation as one of the best of the best names. this is a really good thread topic. thanx for bringing it up. It would be really neat to see the network mapped out. this led to this led to this, etc.