Shimano are notorious for not having parts available for their internal geared hubs while SA historically has been much better in this regard. It is darned near impossible to rebuild a failed Shimano hub even if it is only a few years old while the SA AW hubs have had virtually all parts available. Not sure about current production but earlier Shimano 3 speed hubs were also more prone to failure from all reports I have seen.

Probably because this is the C&V forum, and there are so many old ones that are still operational. I've got three in the garage now that are 35+ years old.

i'm aware of S-A's introduction of the NIG hub (i mentioned i had one in an earlier post to this thread), but as the poster above me just alluded, the vast majority of vintage 3-speeds still floating around, at least in the US, predate the NIG hub.

so, my comment is perfectly valid and bears repeating here-- the "pre-NIG" AWs will have a tendency to drop into freewheel under sustained heavy loading of the clutch in top gear-- even if the spindle is in perfect adjustment. if you disassemble an old AW and examine how third gear works, the flaw becomes evident.

The AW hub is one of the ones that, in the rare event something does break, I'm pretty confident I can replace the part with a good one. There aren't too many other vintage hubs I can say that for. Perhaps the New Departure Model D, but AW parts are still common as dirt. Hopefully that will never change.

(the notable exception is if you need a shell with a specific number of drillings that aren't 32 or 40)

I've dealt with my share of 3 speeds, none had NIGs-- the vintage stuff seems to be what crops up here in the US.

this is true. and, needing a new shell is less common than needing an internal part like a clutch or pawls. i've picked up NOS 36H hubs for next to nothing, and used them to swap the internals on 40H hubs.

there are a couple of different AW clutch and sleeve variations out there, and i'm not sure how they correspond to specific years and whether they are 100% interchangeable.

Sachs made a similar 5 speed hub with a similar looking dual cable shifter which is still shown as available in the SRAM hubs parts list. No real idea of the internal mechanism involved but I have read that the SA ones were not the most reliable shifter they ever made. In fact by reputation the shifters were the item most likely to give trouble on the dual cable 5 speed hubs. There is apparently a reason why dual cable SA 5 speed hub users seem to recommend the use of a 3 speed SA shifter for the right cable and a friction derailleur shifter for the left cable.

Almost certainly reasons why both SA and SRAM current 5 speed hubs have been redesigned to use a single cable shifting arrangement. The dual cable hubs when shifted with two shifters require a very odd and non intuitive shifting sequence. The only hubs currently using dual cable shifting are the NuVinci and Rohloff hubs and on those it is a dual cable pull-pull setup for shifting up and down, in no way similar to the dual cable shifting of older Sachs and SA 5 speed hubs.

28's are pretty common as well, because they were used on RSW-16's, Twenties, and all sorts of other small wheel bikes.

I think of the SA5 as a dual range three speed. You only get 5 speeds because 2nd is direct drive in either range. The shifting sequence is not so counterintuitive if you think of it that way. You can always use a SA trigger shifter on the right side and a friction thumb shifter on the left.

That's how the old Sturmey Archer five speed was, too. I was told that the four speed was pretty much the same thing, with one of the gears unavailable for technical reasons I don't remember.

The SA5 is an old Sturmey Archer five speed.

Oops. Duh.

I finished overhauling an AW hub last night. It really didn't need an overhaul, but it's a spare and I wanted to try it.

With the aid of Sheldon, MnHPVA guy's SA tips, and an old copy of Glenn's, I was able to break down, clean, and reassemble the last couple of evenings. It was fun, but I wish I had taken some digital pictures while I took it apart for reference--it would have made reassembly easier. I think I got it right--I guess the only way to tell would be to put the wheel on my bike and ride it.

I was impressed with how well-designed and engineered the hub was. There's a reason there are so many old ones floating around.

when I took mine apart I wished someone had posted pictures. Sheldon's instructions are good, but they need pics. Had to go back and forth between the instructions and the illustrated breakdown.

Back when I worked as a mechanic, these hubs always frustrated me. We had a few axle nuts and indicator chains and no other spares. There were a couple of hubs that we just couldn't fix. It would have been nice to be able to take them apart and fix them.

unterhausen, I worked in a very ordinary bike shop in Cambridge, MA in 1980 and 1981. When were you a mechanic? We stocked spare parts for the AW hub. Maybe it's just a matter of knowing where to get them. Did you tell the shop owner that more parts would allow you to do a better job?

sorry for O/T, but where did you work? i know most of the shops around cambridge.

It used to be called Bicycle Workshop. It has a new owner and new name now. It's at 259 Massachusetts Ave, among all the MIT buildings. At the time, Steve Morgan owned the shop. I was the sole mechanic at first, then we hired some more, and I became manager and head mechanic.

I remember Shimano 3-speed innards coming as a complete cartridge. Rather than rebuilding the hub, you just open it up, slide out the old cartridge and slide in a new one. Is this no longer the case?

PM sent.

I used to live in Cambridge, Mass. and I was born just outside Harvard Square. There used to be a bike-shop on the outskirts of Harvard Square called the Bi-Ex - short for Bicycle Exchange. And a few on Mass. Ave. towards North Cambridge. I did my business at Harris in Newton, or Laughing Alley in Allston. I remember the one by MIT - but never checked it out. Too busy living in MIT's research libraries.

we really didn't see that many SA hubs, and the vast majority just need oiling and minor adjustment. I was afraid to take the things apart back then anyway, it wasn't that easy to get instructions either.

Internal replacement cartridges are listed by Shimano on their parts lists but once a hub model is discontinued availability of them seems to also end within a couple of years, based on posts I have seen.

Also things like shifters vanish too based on posts from a member looking for a Shimano 4 speed shifter fairly recently.

Yeah, crap like that is why we hate Shimano. They make some excellent products and are innovative, but serviceability of many of their things is NOT GOOD.

Yeah. I had a horrible time trying to find a shifter for my Shimano 3-spd. wheel. That's why I went and got a Sturmey-Archer.

I am most impressed with the amount of info a person can glean from this site, and the people are very knowledgeable, for the most part. I would like to know if anyone has bought or played with the newer versions of the S/A, like the 8 speeds or the coaster brake models. I would like to dump the ten speed/derailleur setup and fix up my bike for the city and the hills in my area. Any and all advice and help greatly apprecieated. Thanks in advance. ron

If you want to discuss the current Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub (XRF8w), go to the folding bike forum; that's where the expertise on that particular hub hangs out.

I have one on my commuter bike. It's quite nice, and if you have a bike with small wheels (mine is a folding bike with 16" wheels) then it's really your best option owing to the way it is geared: first gear being direct drive, the others are overdrive. The 325% range is also exceptional. If you like drop bars or mustache bars, however, you're out of luck.