sympathy or not if i can give the seller a fair price I'll try it.

I have tried 'sniping' twice and once I actually somehow lost. the second time I want but I just plain hate doing it.

To me inquiries about a 'buy it now' price, when one does not exist on ebay, are akin to 'would you sell this for half price' offers on items listed on CL... Plus, completing a transaction outside of ebay is not kosher and, in addition, is unfair to bidders who play by the rules.

Exactly, some are hoping to shortchange the seller on an item, before the auction gets heated up.

Sniping software doesn't have anything to do with why you lost. If you bid high enough, you will win. Enter $100,000 for that Campy wrench you want. You may grossly overpay for it, but you will win.

I don't know why I get involved in these discussions, but here goes - if you want something, there is no harm in asking. Either someone says yes, or someone says no. Basic business 101.

If I see something that jumps out at me, and for some reason I don't want to bid or snipe, I ask. Either the seller says yes, or he says no. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. eBay isn't Amazon - but even if it was - I have no problem making a offer for something, whether it's on Craigslist, a car dealer, a bike store...even a shoe store. I've done it with online stores, too. I do the same on eBay. If the deal is sweet enough, the deal is made. If not, then I up my offer, or I walk.

I just don't see hwat the big deal is. eBay can make all the stupid rules they want, I don't really care. I'm never going to read them anyway, and they change them whenever they want anyway.

The buyer gets his bike, the seller gets his money, and eBay gets it's cut.

Incidentally, anything expensive I bid on on eBay, I ALWAYS ask a question, any question. Always. I judge whether I want to do business with the seller based on how the guy answers. In ten years of buying stuff on eBay, I've learned that you should always talk to the seller before making a major purchase. Saves being ripped off. Occasionally, at this point, I see the seller isn't a goofball, he sees that I'm not an eBay flake, and we come to an agreement. Sometimes he fishes for an offer, and sometimes I'll throw a number out there. Whatever. As I said, business is business. I lose on plenty of auctions/craigslist items, so I'm sure it allcomes out even in the end.

If you followed the thread, you'd see that's not what I asked about.

i've done it and see nothing wrong with asking.If the buyer has a price he wants to sell it now, let me know.If its more than i want to spend then I bid and hope for the best.If I like his "buy it now" price I will jump on it and end the bidding.I usually do it with an offer to pick up the item because sellers would rather have you pick up the item and avoid the shipping on a bike plus you get a chance to check it out.

This is really helping me make a list of BF people I won't deal with.

Dawes-man,
You originally wrote "get the item for less than they would in an open bid. Is that the angle? It's seems a very sleazy approach. Or is there another angle?

I wrote "Nothing sleazy to me.Both parties are adults with eyes wide open.The other bidders are just SOL, so what??Let them send an email with a $$ offer. They lost nothing.
You then wrote "If you followed the thread, you'd see that's not what I asked about."
You clearly said it was sleazy to try to buy a item...... by asking the seller to sell it ?? Yes, that sure is sneaky-sleazy also.
Others suggested getting it more quickly is a possibility- money(paying less) and certainty are also good reasons.

In some instances, requesting a BIN makes good sense. In fact, I'm having trouble understanding why C&V types have a problem with it. I've read several complaining threads about how the bidding on ebay gets carried away and some item sells for way more than it should. On the other hand, I've read posts here about items that were put up for sale that didn't get nearly what the C&V seller thought they should go for. The requests that I've seen from ebayers for a BIN is to avoid paying some crazy price for an item they want, sort of insurance against a runaway auction. Sellers do it for the reverse, they've been offered a chance to get exactly what they want. If they both agree, why not do it?
BTW, I've never asked for a BIN and I've lost items to someone who did request a BIN. Being inherently cheap, I usually use ebay to find a bargain and very few BINs are bargains.

The problems I have with that (and I have been on ebay for 11 years now and completed more than 2000 transactions, 75% of them buying rather than selling) :

a. It is against the rules. You cannot circumvent the process (and the fees it implies). If you are a seller and want to put a BIN you do it. If you are a buyer and there is no a BIN, assume that there is a good reason for that. (would you go to your grocery store and haggle over the price of a dozen eggs? Nope.)
b. It is plain unfair (and unethical) against other bidders and bad business practice (not to mention bad karma) for sellers to complete transactions outside of the ebay process and leave legitimate bidders/prospective buyers out to hang. Sellers that do that directly get in my blacklist. If you list an auction as a seller, you sign a contract that you accept the playground. Same if you are buying something on ebay. If you do not like the playground, there are other places to hang, but there is no need to litter.

Specifically, I asked about people asking IF the seller had a BIN price when the option was NOT offered in the auction. Someone later mentioned contacting such a seller and making an offer. I don't see these as equivalent. I see no harm in making an offer, which is what I think you are talking about.

As I have already pointed out, perhaps 'sleazy' is not the right word and 'lacking in manners' is more appropriate. Like if you went to get a something valued and the valuer asked you how much you were willing to sell it for it instead of doing what you had gone there for. Kind of insulting and a little stupid on the side. Or if you took a bicycle to have some work done on what you knew to be a fine, old classic bicycle and the LBS told you it was junk and that you should buy a new bike rather than waste your money.

I've never sold anything on ebay, only bought, but if I was a seller I might put a BIN price but if I didn't it would be a conscious decision and might be because I was unsure of its value, or interested to see what it would go for, or not mind it going for less than I thought it was worth or maybe just for the fun of it. If someone then asked me what my BIN price was, or if I had one, or how much I would want to stop the auction, in other words, expecting me to do what I had consciously decided not to do, I would wonder at that person's manners and motives and perhaps their ability to understand English. I might also make a note never to accept bids from that person in the future, although with a memory like mine I would probably soon forget.

... or maybe I'm on the list...

When I ask for a BIN and the seller agrees, I always require that they set up a private auction with a legit BIN for me. That keeps it inside eBay's policies and subject to their fees. If the seller won't do that then I won't buy it; too much chance I could get scammed.

btw, do you think sniping software is "unethical"?

I done this under the following guidelines I set for myself: I don't want to take a chance that I will not win it (normally that I won't be at a computer at the end of auction) and I will pay the seller fair market value - even if he undervalues it. My main motivation is to win because I want or have convinced myself I need the item.

So far, I have only ever concluded my auctions on Ebay and have not yet had a seller to take me up on the request for a BIN price. Each and every time I have been told 'sorry, but I want to let the auction run...', I reply back and tell them I understand and will take my chances.

Interestingly enough, I have won some items at the end that I would've offered more for if the seller had agreed to strike a deal. Sometimes that's the way it goes, too. Ebay is funny in lots of ways. I don't over-analyze it any more than I have to these days...

No. It's a tactic that answers a 'problem' specific to ebay; auctions aren't extended according to whether or not there are more bids but stop according to a time limit. I don't use sniping software as the removal from the bidding process doesn't appeal to me but if I really want something, rather than enter my highest from the outset, I place it 4 or 5 seconds before the auction is due to end. That way I know straight away if my bid was successful or not and also know that it won or lost on its own merits. Or something like that.

Dawes-man,

I appreciate your explanation-and I take your point.You more or less assume that the seller made a conscious decision, an irrevocable decision, to not put a BIN price, so you find it faintly insulting that a buyer would email asking for a BIN. The email implies that the seller isn't bright enough to have figured out it "needs" a BIN.

I used to sell a fair amount on ebay, and it frequently wasn't a well thought out "ad". I would just try to get it on ebay as quickly as possible with as little pain as possible, for as little money as possible. I would usually start at 99 cents to avoid high starting fees, and rarely used a reserve. It is within the rules to remove your item from the auction if it is "no longer available for sale." Yes, I would interpret that to mean whatever I wanted it to mean. I always split hairs in my favor when dealing with Ebay. I was always within my interpretation of the Ebay rules, and I freely admit that I have no interest the spirit of the "law" and no interest in exactly what the intent of the regulation was.The intent of their rules is always the same- get Ebay as much money as possible-money from my pocket,and the buyers pockets.My intent was always the same-as few fees as possible within the rules of Ebay.

Well, sellers do change their minds on the BIN option once they see how the auction is going. If their Record Campy brakes (1978 vintage)+ levers + rubber hoods is at just $20 with 24 hours left-they might consider a $100 BIN offer, if they have just 5 watchers.However, if they have 50 watchers they will let it ride. I found that -as a general rule-about 20% of the watchers were going to make serious bids at the end of the auction. 5 watchers means you are in trouble-50 watchers means it will dramatically spike as 10 folks fight for one item.

Many sellers just toss the item on Ebay, and see what the interest is by how many watchers they have. The seller will change his valuation of the item based on this. He doesn't want to put a BIN on it until he actually knows what it is worth. He will consider a BIN, because a BIN because of a specific request means you are actually going to be paid(probably). Getting a high last bid doesn't mean you are actually going to be paid. My guess is that the default rate on pricey bike auctions is maybe 5% or so. On BINs it is much lower since the buyer initiated it, and really really wants the item.No immediate buyers remorse.

Thanks for your explanation.I see your point, but sellers do change their minds, or they are just in such a rush, they forget. They also are looking to hold down fees-within the limits of Ebays regs.They always interpret Ebays regs in their favor-some folks find that distasteful-they just cross you off.They are usually the most frugal, so not no loss there.
Charlie
PS CV is filled with flippers-buy 1X--spiff it up, put two-three hours+ cables,+ fix tubes+ adjust derailleurs, clean, oil-sell 1.6X. Win win for both parties.Some are too sharp by half and buy .25X -put in time, parts- sell 2X. Usually it doesn't work that way, and it seems a bit unfair to the original seller, but C'est La Vie .

As far as I know, and in the auctions where a seller has added a BIN for me, it's not against the rules - how else could the seller have added it!??!?! I'm not quite clear how it circumvents fees...I suppose some idiot could have come along and outbid my quite handsome offer that the seller was satisfiied with...

What? It's a BIN!??! How is that outside the process?

I just don't 'get' you guys, and obviously you guys don't 'get' those of us who 'get' resourcefulness and communications skills.

Frankly, it sounds like sour grapes.

I've collected various stuffs for going on 40 years. I've dealt with people at flea markets, stores, thru specialty newspaper publications, newspaper want ads, garage sales, estate sales, antique stores, auctions, friends who show up at my door with boxes of stuff they heard I might be interested in...I could go on and on.

I've met a lot of interesting and different people thru my hobbies, and had a lot of fun dialogues.

One thing I learned is to not be judgmental, and to take people as they are.

My lists are all of stuff to keep an eye out for.

I really don't understand why anybody thinks it's sleazy or wrong to ask for a buy-it-now. If the seller wants to do it, fine. If the sellers says no, fine. What's the harm in asking?

I've had sellers only too happy to accept a reasonable offer to end an auction, so that they get the cash a little quicker - regardless of whether they offered the BIN in the first place. Likewise - if I've not had any serious bids already on an item, I'm usually open to offers.

Btw GV27... there's no such thing as 'auto-bidding software' in eBay. You're losing out to people who put in their 'highest bid' early and then wait to see if anyone matches or beats them. It's a bit like 'sealed bids' for property, antiques, and so on.

...and sellers don't bid on there own items under different name or have friends bid on their item because thats not ethical.Thats another debate.

a. Not strictly true. It's not against the rules as long as the transaction proceeds within eBay. eBay still get their fee.
b. Unfair, unethical? If there are no other (serious) bidders who is being disadvantaged? As for bad business practice... notwithstanding the previous point, think cash-flow.

Many sales are made outside Ebay-happens all the time. An item doesn't sell, no bids or doesn't reach reserve.So industrious types will contact the seller and offer to buy it for maybe 85% of what shipping + the minimum was.Seller says ok-deal made, but even Ebay makes some money since buy is made with Paypal.

Were Ebay regs violated-who cares-not even Ebay cares since they made some $$?Buyer= WIN Seller= WIN Ebay= WIN This is why Ebay doesn't attempt to pursue folks who do this(that and it would be tough to prove- waste of time and effort when there are true scammers working Ebay))

This is all for fun/hobby like the Sciencemonster says.I (the mystery buyer) get to play with another bike for another month or two, the eventual buyer gets a bike that has been spiffed up/repaired made usable again.The bikes usually don't sell on Ebay initially because something is "broken" in some way.It-they- wasn't/weren't immediately ride able, but it/they had some feature I liked-usually a Chrome Moly frame that made it worth my effort.www. Most buyers CL and Ebay-don't make enough $$ to consider it real money.It is fun-a hobby

This is a typical buy, but just an outright ebay buy, not a backdoor buy.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I'll fix it up, but how much will I make paying $113 for it?? Maybe it will sell-in March-for $145. Strictly for fun,I like bikes.This one has a Chrome Moly frame and 700c wheels that can take wide maybe 38mm tires, so it is a good do anything bike.Shame for it to sit in a garage.

Who Dat
Charlie

Obviously, selling on e bay is always a gamble for both parties. Winning bids on items can vary wildly from week to week just depending on who is looking right then & there , and how bad two people decide they want it. I have listed things in the past that sold for way more than I ever would have guessed, and conversely I have listed things that I thought would do OK, but never got any looks, so who knows?

A seller who enters a Buy It Now option is hoping the BIN price is more than the price if the auction went to its conclusion;the buyer is hoping that they can BIN for less than if the auction went to the end.

Personally, I would not end an auction if asked to add a BIN, if there was already a bidder ; I would wish the person who asked for one Good Luck and to bid like anyone else.

As far as sniping goes, I have no issues with it whatsoever. It is actually a good procedure for a buyer; if you bid your max very early, you end up being very suceptable to "nibblers" who keep driving your bid up a couple dollars at a time. By sniping, you can hope to catch some of them unaware. As long as one knows what an item is worth to them and bids accordingly you will never be upset if you lose to someone else. As a seller, I don't really care what method people use to bid as long as they keep bidding. I think some people fall in a trap when they lose to a sniped bid by $1, so they think "I would have bid a couple bucks more had I known" The reality is that you have no idea how high the other person would ultimately have gone.

I don't sell bike parts, but I once sold a plastic model car kit on e bay that I had for many years. I figured if I got $40 for it, I would be thrilled. There were 2 bidders who kept driving the price up with a bidding war against each other. The funny thing was there was another auction for an identical item going on at the same time. Instead of one buyer going after one item and letting the other guy have the other one, they bid against each other in a frenzy on both of them simultaneously thus driving the final price on both to just over $200. If one of them had asked me early for a BIN, I very likely might have set it at $40 which as things turned out would have been a big mistake on my part.

The funny part was, if you looked the next month, some of these kits were sitting there at the $30 level with little interest from anyone.

Apparently psychology seems to show that people get excited to see a low starting price (even if they don't know the reserve) and once they start bidding gain an emotional attachment in thinking they could get a deal. When their bid is under the reserve, they may be more inclined to increase it at that point a few dollars at a time hoping to meet the unknown reserve price.

As your example let's say a buyer decides $100 starting bid is too much and doesn't bid. If it starts at $10 with a $100 reserve, this person bids $70 as the high bidder hoping it is enough. Now they are thinking; didn't meet reserve, so I'll up my bid by $10 thinking $80 is still a pretty good deal. At this point they have already made a couple bids and start dreaming how nice that would look on their project bike. Eventually they say,Why not bid another $10? Now they start thinking in terms of the small additional increment of $10, instead of the $90 because they fritter away $10 at Starbucks every couple days etc.

I agree that an auction with a disclosed reserve doesn't seem to make much sense.