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Please Help Me Make a Decision--WWYD???

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Please Help Me Make a Decision--WWYD???

Old 04-03-10, 01:45 PM
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23skidoo
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Please Help Me Make a Decision--WWYD???

Here's my dilemma. Last fall I sent a '78 Trek TX-300 frame and fork off to a well-known and talented midwestern frame builder/painter for restoration work. The fork was bent, the rear triangle was a bit wanked, and there was an old junky seatpost that had a death grip on the seat tube. The frame work and seat post removal were accomplished with no problems at all. The original DuPont Imron paint color was Metallic Bronze and I wanted it repainted to match the original and even though the painter does not use Imron paints, he said he'd match it a closely as possible and therein lies my dissatisfaction.

When it arrived--several months after he said it would be finished--the paint was not what I would in any way describe as bronze. It's metallic, but more of what I would describe as a nutmeg/cinnamon in color. The decals are perfect and in every respect but the color, the work is very clean, professional and highly presentable. But I still can't quite bring myself to love the color. The painter has offered to redo the work at no charge as long as I send it to him with a paint chip (I won't get snarky and say, 'can't you just match the old paint left on the steerer tube?), but I'll end up paying to ship it there and back and be without the frame for a few more months.

So what do you think? Suck it up and live with what I got or send it back?





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Old 04-03-10, 01:49 PM
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Grab the fork, head for the closest body shop, ask them to pull out their pant chip books and spend a few hours browsing and matching. If you're not happy with the color, you'll never really be happy riding the bike I'd suspect. I took better than 3 weeks researching and looking for the right color when I repainted my Serotta. Cost me an extra $50 over normal price because I'd picked out some fancy 3-stage paint, but in the end it was exactly what I wanted and love just seeing it sparkle in the sun.

btw: I wouldn't call that bronze either. Can't think of a car I've seen recently in that color though that I could help you narrow down the search. My old 85 Caprice Classic was somewhat of a bronze, but that was after 13 years of sun exposure of the original paint. After paint it was a bit more 'brown' than it had been.
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Old 04-03-10, 01:56 PM
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Hi 23skidoo,

First of all, if you aren't thrilled with the color, fix it. Been down the same road recently.

By fix it, I mean let him re-shoot the bike!

Secondly, I really like the color you ended up with. Sharp stuff.

Thirdly, is this the Trek bronze you are looking for by chance?



If so, let me know and I can send some hi-res shots to the painter. In fact, if the painter is in Minnesota, I'd drag my bike over there if that would be helpful.

Let me know if it helps!
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Old 04-03-10, 02:22 PM
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Pay the shipping and send it back with a color chip for a repaint. You'll forget about the $30 shipping long before you tire of ridng and enjoying the bike.
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Old 04-03-10, 02:39 PM
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+2 If I am not satisfied, I never get satisfied later. I would have a discussion with the painter, send it back, and get exactly what you want. Even if I had to pay more to get it right, I would do it (I am assuming it is a keeper).
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Old 04-03-10, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gomango View Post
Hi 23skidoo,

First of all, if you aren't thrilled with the color, fix it. Been down the same road recently.

Secondly, I really like the color you ended up with. Sharp stuff.

Thirdly, is this the Trek bronze you are looking for by chance?



If so, let me know and I can send some hi-res shots to the painter. In fact, if the painter is in Minnesota, I'd drag my bike over there if that would be helpful.

Let me know if it helps!
Different strokes for different folks, eh gomango? I've been waffling over this and what keeps tripping me up is, the color does look really nice out in the sun where the fine gold metallic fleck--I'm thinking it's in the clear rather than the base coat--really makes it look nice, but it's still not what I wanted.

The painter--who is perfectly willing to redo the whole job on his time and money--is next door to you in Michigan.

I'd say the finish on your lovely Trek is closer to a gold/bronze than the reddish bronze I was trying to obtain. The color I'm seeking is #43822 Bronze Metallic on the linked Imron .pdf from Joe Bell's site: https://www.campyonly.com/images/joebell/imron.pdf
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Old 04-03-10, 05:00 PM
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Dare I say it's a little mustard? Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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Old 04-03-10, 05:11 PM
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who was the painter? It's good work, I might want to use him.
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Old 04-03-10, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
Different strokes for different folks, eh gomango? I've been waffling over this and what keeps tripping me up is, the color does look really nice out in the sun where the fine gold metallic fleck--I'm thinking it's in the clear rather than the base coat--really makes it look nice, but it's still not what I wanted.

The painter--who is perfectly willing to redo the whole job on his time and money--is next door to you in Michigan.

I'd say the finish on your lovely Trek is closer to a gold/bronze than the reddish bronze I was trying to obtain. The color I'm seeking is #43822 Bronze Metallic on the linked Imron .pdf from Joe Bell's site: https://www.campyonly.com/images/joebell/imron.pdf
Hi 23skidoo,

Thanks for the compliment on the TX700. Its feeling like it will take me forever to collect the parts, but I think it will be a great rider when completed.

But back to your issue. I know exactly what you are going through with this color matter. I tried to save a couple of bucks and go with a new painter with my Casati. He just couldn't get the color correct, and after three strikes I decided to go in different direction. Was I being picky. Yep.

He was a nice guy though.

I ended up getting another quote from a fantastic local builder that happens to do renovations. Very fair price, and he nailed the color on the first try. I'm waiting for my turn at this point.

Thank you for the above link. I'll check it out.

Hang in there, just make sure you get exactly what you paid for.
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Old 04-03-10, 05:17 PM
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I had a problem in this vein. 12 weeks became 26... Color was to match, did not, pack job to there was exceptional, designed to be reused even, painter said very skillful pack job. Frame arrived back, way too dark, "orange peel" on fork, bent drive side dropout upon return due to poor packing.

The lion's share was paid, maybe ship and insurance back due, no invoice in box.

Painter said he would redo it, I did not want to wait a bunch more time from a guy who was going to be doing paint and transfers for free. It is still sitting on my hook, its been 2 years? three? I still have not decided what to do, to most it would be fine, but as I have a same make, same model that does not match it will always bug ME. It will not be going the the same painter.

Lesson? A color standard or spray out (test spray of THE intended color) is the way to go. Even if you spec a color from a known color book (automotive or paint mfg, things can go sour) I should have known better, a hard lesson. I know enough to realize that no small owner / operator really will have his heart in redoing it full tilt for free, its just not human nature.
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Old 04-03-10, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
I'd say the finish on your lovely Trek is closer to a gold/bronze than the reddish bronze I was trying to obtain. The color I'm seeking is #43822 Bronze Metallic on the linked Imron .pdf from Joe Bell's site: https://www.campyonly.com/images/joebell/imron.pdf
NEVER choose a color off a computer monitor! Period! I have done color matching, No way I would depend on a color monitor, even if calibrated, your computer screen is NOT PAINT.
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Old 04-03-10, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
NEVER choose a color off a computer monitor! Period! I have done color matching, No way I would depend on a color monitor, even if calibrated, your computer screen is NOT PAINT.
This is absolutely correct. We have used Imron/Dupont/PPG and other color guides though, to ball park matches. It is a starting point, not the ending point.

We have rebuilt/refinished sports cars/motorcycles over the last forty years, and color chips sprayed from the actual on-hand supply is the best way to go.

Maybe he'll shoot you a test piece next time and send it in the post?

Ask for it, they'll want to be spot on the second time around.
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Old 04-03-10, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
Here's my dilemma .....
Suck it up and live with what I got, or send it back?
YES and no.

but it kind of depends.....

First, if the color was "supposed to match" the remains of the original color that was on the steer tube that the painter had, well then, you have a good case for a re-do.

If the painters only instructions were to do a "metallic bronze", then that was blurred from interpretation.
And often the paint in the can you buy, differs from the color on the chip in the book. Car painters often do what is called a let-down panel as they spray a repair. This is a flat surface piece that they can use as a guide for how well the color is covering and that the amount of metallics and pearls are correct to match the car.

So even if you have a solid case for a re-do, is it worth it?

Because the frame is subjected to a complete strip and re-spray, and the more you do that to a frame, the less reliable it will become.
So unless that specific frame has special meaning for you, find another one and have THAT one repainted the correct color.

Another, less complex fix, would be to (assuming their is a clear coat or two) scuff the clear, mask a panel & headtube, spray the correct Bronze basecoat over the rest and then clear the whole thing again.

OOoooor...., just find a different accent color than the one you originally had in mind.
RED might go well with the current color!? Or greens!

Just a final note, if you do send it back for a free re-do, consider it a nail in his/her coffin.
Any profit they may have eeked out of doing it the first time, now vanishes.
Granted, if they can't match a color that's right in front of them, then that's not on you.

Hope it all works out amicably!
 
Old 04-03-10, 06:34 PM
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Looks good to me, and it sounds like the painter is going the extra mile. Just make sure that you and he have the same set of requirements. Might help to offer to pay for the materials...

and a word of advice for all of you using painters:

Don't rush 'em, boys. You'll get some baaaad magic.
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Old 04-03-10, 06:48 PM
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I've lived with something I did not like with every frame I've ever had painted, and I've always used the top guys. In case like this where work is acceptable but the color is off I would just leave it as is and ask the painter to do me a solid on the next one.
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Old 04-03-10, 09:09 PM
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Richard:

I like the "new" color very much. You have something really unique there. Period.

J
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Old 04-03-10, 09:09 PM
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....

Richard:

I like the "new" color very much. You have something really unique there. Period.

J
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Old 04-03-10, 09:22 PM
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Man , that's a good looking bicycle. If it's killing you, send it back, but that is a nice color.
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Old 04-03-10, 09:49 PM
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Hey, is this close to the shade of bronze you want?



I used to have a Mustang in this color. If you are looking for the Trek color I think you might be, Ford factory paint chips might be worth a look. The color above was fairly common for 74ish - 76 Mustang IIs. It looks darker in person, less gold especially.
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Old 04-03-10, 10:50 PM
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Send it back. It is not really what you want. You should start a poll.
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Old 04-03-10, 11:14 PM
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Can we say baby**** brown here?

Evidently not.

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Old 04-03-10, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
NEVER choose a color off a computer monitor! Period! I have done color matching, No way I would depend on a color monitor, even if calibrated, your computer screen is NOT PAINT.
Haha, case in point: I have a program installed called Flux, it changes the monitor color temperature based on the time of day, so you're not blinded while looking at the screen at night. But I always forget that it's on, and that color looked TOTALLY different when I switched it off, hah.

I like it a lot as is, but I can imagine that it would bug me forever that it wasn't what I wanted, probably better to send it back.
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Old 04-03-10, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Flying Merkel View Post
Can we say baby**** brown here?

Evidently not.
Personally, I think it looks like mocha, but maybe that's my monitor. I bet it'd go over great in bike/coffee/beer-mad Portland.

My all-time favorite bike color is the Pearlescent Orange that was on my Schwinn Le Tour III. *Sigh*.
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Old 04-04-10, 05:59 AM
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I can tell it's not the bronze it was before, but it sure looks period-correct in that color. Other than that, though, you have your work cut out for you building it back with anything other than white or black accents....I think the bronze would have lent itself to more choices. While I think it could be a very clean bike with black and white accents, it's not mine to re-do, and it's certainly not OEM.

Now, I can think of a BF member in Oklahoma who would really like that color, and come up with an awesome build...right up his alley with his knack for super-clean, simple schemes....
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Old 04-04-10, 06:08 AM
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I like it
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