Probably we all have.

I recently received a bike frame that was advertised as having "minor scratches". I received it and it had 1) rust thru the top tube, from inside, 2) two small but noticeable dents, and 3) stripped bottom bracket threads. None of this was mentioned or photographed in the listing.

Seller want me to pay return shipping, then will refund the purchase price if bike is in the same condition he sent it. His replies insist it has only minor scratches. The rust spot on the underside of the top tube, right under the opening for a thru the tube cable run, kinda argues against that. Shine a light in, and you can see the interior rust. Needless to say, since he left obvious defects out of his listing, I'm not much on trusting him; plus if I eat shipping both ways I'm out quite a bit of money (more than the purchase price). This assumes he actually refunds, which I'm dubious, since he insists the bike is just fine.

I've told him to refund, plus return shipping; then I will gladly send the bike back. Some how I don't think he'll do that. So I'm likely stuck with the bike.

Anyone gone thru the process with paypal? What do they expect? If the frame had been more expensive, I would have paid with credit card; as it is, I'm out bank account monies.

Should I return the bike and start a paypal complaint? Keep the bike and file a paypal complaint (and return it if resolved in my favour?) Return it and cross my fingers? Lob negative feedback and just walk away?

Advice appreciated.

Aw, I hate this ****. My condolences.

But you have left out the crucial piece of information: would you like to keep this frame? Obviously it's not worth what you paid for it (including shipping) and I presume you wish you hadn't bought it, but if the price were right, is it something you'd like to keep and possibly repair? What would you pay for it at a yard sale?

Hi, Try going to this page on Ebay:

https://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...s%20described?

There will be a list of items you purchased and fellow the instructions or contact Ebay by phone to speak to a customer support member.

Bring up the item page with the description and photo's. Take pictures of the item for reference to submit to Ebay. You can also stop and lock the sellers account on Paypal, that's if you paid for the frame through Paypal.

Bon Chance,

Mike

Give the seller 1 more chance to refund including all shipping, then go through the Ebay/PayPal dispute process. You can file the item as "Significantly not as described" or whatever the term is. Since the Ebay dispute process favors the buyer, you'll probably come out ok.

That's another consideration. You can ask for a partial refund or discount from the seller and

I'd print a copy of the listing just to be safe. Also take very good photos of the damage. Maybe have a shop look at the frame for another opinion, preferably one in writing. One thing you have in your favor is you're the buyer. Ebay/Paypal will tend to side with you, at least that was my experience in the only complaint I've had. I guess if it were me I'd explore the Paypal complaint options before putting myself on the hook for more shipping charges. As you point out, based on what you know, it would be naive to have a high degree of confidence in the seller's willingness to pony up what he should.

I would have dropped a fiver on it at a yard sale. Frame's shot, between rust and stripped threads. Fork and headset are okay.

Repair would be tough-- stripped BB threads are italian, and they're gone, gone gone( to quote Ferlin Husky). Not worth going through, anyway.

If I wind up stuck with it, I'm stuck with it. Life will go on, and I'll certainly find something nice down the road, so I refuse to complain too much. I'd rather ship the sucker back and get all my monies back, though.

As is, I'm out 125$ and unwilling to send more money down the drain in the hopes of a refund. I'll live with that if need be, and sleep well.

+1. Ebay would be even scarier if ppl could so easily list things that are "not as described", then wash their hands once you pay for them. If you went thru paypal, you have few or no worries. Even if you didn't go thru paypal, you will likely get justice, but it will take time, effort, and patience to get your money back. Depending on the price you paid, it may or may not seem worthwhile to you. But, i think that the real predators of ebay are the bottom feeders. They know that the items that go for several hundred dollars will be disputed, but the cheap stuff, they figure most of us will just chalk it up to experience, and live with it.

But, yes, if you file a claim and keep at it, you'll get your money. It's definitely not right, but it could be a lot worse.

-rob

ps-i wouldn't give this guy the benefit of the doubt anymore. He sold you a rusted through frame, and said it was "scratched"? Who knows what stuff he'll try to invent if you ship it back to him before a refund.

Homebrew is right. Take good photos and take it up with the dispute process.
If it's nowhere near as described, you get your money back.
The process is geared towards helping buyers.

If the seller is being a jerk about the return shipping charges, then there is no trust. Take the claim to the next level, Ebay and Paypal. This is one small step to purge sellers that take advantage of public trust. Don't send the frame back unless the seller agrees and authorizes the return. Mike

paypal has refunded my money before. they're pretty good about this sort of stuff. you can say product was "not as advertised" and they should refund your money. offer to submit pics of damage if needed. then you can let the seller know that if he wants the frame back, he can send money for postage, otherwise it's going out with the trash.

you should also contact ebay and let them know about it. if the seller has other complaints they can turn off the account.

I really don't know. Maybe you can find a mediator. Good luck, and keep us posted.

It might be better to buy on ebay only with expendable money. That way, nothing is crushing if it doesn't work out.

i've been successful with Paypal grievances twice. it worked well for me

Whatever you do, act quickly. Paypal has a time limit on when you can make claims, something like four weeks. After that they don't do anything, so don't waste time dickering with your crooked seller.

Paypal is one of the scummiest, dirtiest sites to deal with. When/if Paypal blows off your claim, file a credit card dispute. Your CC company will get your money back, however paypal will permanently block you.

I stopped using ePay and pay"pal" over a year ago after being a customer for 10 years. Too many sellers are crooks now. Recently I was getting ripped off like you on half the things I bought on ebay. It wasn't this bad 10 years ago.

My circumstances are a little different, but here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Bought a new bike off a seemingly-solid eBay seller (registered since 1999, 100% positive feedback, had sold bikes via eBay in previous transactions). Seller listed the bike with pedals ($80-90 retail value), but did not ship the pedals with the bike. To make a long story short, I never did get the pedals, so I pursued the matter with eBay. They told me "ship the whole bike back, with proof of delivery, we'll refund everything."

This was not a good solution for me, so I ignored their instructions and went after the seller via my credit card issuer. (I did the PayPal transaction using a credit card.) That worked... I got a partial refund to cover the missing pedals.

In sum, if you used a credit card with your PayPal transaction, you may have a "plan B" after pursuing the matter via eBay's resolution center.

+1000. I like your style, Dude. get aggressive with this little weasels. seriously

+1 Ebay and Paypal are both tilted in favor of the buyer. Put in an official claim/dispute immediately. You will get all of your money, including shipping, refunded to you. Seller is being foolish. As a frequent seller/sometimes buyer on ebay, I bend over backwards to satisfy customer.

You might even consider leaving negative feedback now (it can be retracted later, ebay has a process for that).

I have been on both ends of this type dispute. The seller is definitely at fault if the frame is not as advertised.
I think that Paypal/ebay will say that the buyer must pay shipping in exchange for a refund in this type case. It's just a chance you take using ebay.
As a seller, once I had a buyer request a partial refund saying the item was not as described. They liked the item & wanted to keep it but did not want to pay as much as their bid...WTF.. I put it in his court. He pays return shipping & I refund bid amount. Paypal/ebay agreed with me after some deliberation. Buyer kept the item.
Not saying any of this applies here except ebay said the buyer must pay return shipping in exchange for refund.

About to start process; he's refused to refund until I ship the frame. If ebay puts the monies in escrow until he recieves the frame, I'll ship it back no prob. Otherwise, no way. I won't send good money after bad.

OP: since the seller's not working with you, this is your mission:

Open Dispute "Not as described". Paypal will then put a hold on your payment to the seller.

Give a good description of the "not as described" damage, rust, what have you in your "description of problem" and be as precise and "nice" as you can. The seller sounds like he will come off as an asshat, so that will put you in good standing with Paypal right off the bat.

When (or if, but I'd lay odds Paypal will side in your favor - yes, that's an opinion based on personal experience) Paypal finds in your favor, they will release the funds back to you once you show proof that the frame has been shipped back. Personally, I find this part of the process a little dubious; they should wait until the frame is delivered back to the seller, but that's not always the case. So, ship with Delivery Confirmation - but don't worry about insurance (why, right? It's already jacked-up and what's the seller going to say? He's not the buyer, you're just shipping his POS back).

THEN, and this is important: CALL a Paypal rep and give them the following sob story: "Man, this process worked pretty well, but in the end I'm out the cost for shipping back, all because I trusted the seller and his description. In the end, I paid X amount just to get a hands on look at a POS. Can't anything be done about that?"

Paypal very likely will refund (one time only) your RETURN shipping as well.

This is exactly what happened to me with a pair of SR hubs from Europe. The only problem in the end is that the process took so long it went past the cutoff to leave feedback for the crappy seller. Oh well, can't have everything...

Let us know how it comes out.

DD

+1. the one time I had a problem with an ebay/paypal purchase
it was resolved pretty quickly in my favor. Forward them photos
of the damage, all correspondence with the seller, and above all
do not wig out and demand justice. This stuff happens all the time,
and the dispute process is weighted in favor of the buyer.

BTW there used to be a whole forum page on the internet for
pissed off sellers who had been screwed in one way or another
by Paypal. Some of the guys on here who sell stuff on e-bay
could probably share a story or two, but if it were me, I wouldn't
do so.

Mike Larmer

As much as I detest Paypal for other reasons, they responded quickly and effectively for two Ebay purchases that went bad. In both cases, I got all my money ( including shipping back ), and even ended up keeping the items since the sellers disappeared after my challenge.

I'd be fine with the process described above by drillium dude. It's a pain, but I'd get my $$$ back.

Seller tried to get me to cancel the transaction, but I refused. Since he hasn't returned the monies, I won't.

I will not put out any further cash (ie, ship back) until money is in escrow or in my hands, guys.

If the Buyer and seller agree to cancel a transaction wouldn't PayPal refund the money?

Apparently not. Ebay warns you not to cancel unless you have the refund or have not paid yet.

The seller has now accused me of damaging the frame, via email. Hey, I didn't make the rust magically appear.

I'm not responding. At this point, responses go only thru a third party (ie ebay dispute resolution). He did send his email via the bay, however. Apparently I'm quite duplicitous.

Off to relax and not deal with this for twenty four hours.

I really much prefer selling on ebay to buying. For this very reason. Lots of people on ebay flogging stuff with lousy pictures, almost no condition description, and then they become defensive if you ask detailed questions. These things hurt ebay to no end, and, I don't think they care. They'll help you, but they haven't helped themselves much by putting up with this kind of stuff. It's a scary crap shoot.