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Sometimes, the old ways are the best

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Sometimes, the old ways are the best

Old 01-19-11, 12:42 PM
  #76  
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Does anyone even use CDs anymore? If I'm going to the trouble of keeping a CD clean, I might as well use vinyl. And they don't even have cover art viewable with the naked eye!

The only purpose to a CD is using it to make some MP3s from...after that, they're coasters. It wasn't CDs that killed vinyl for me...it was MP3s.
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Old 01-19-11, 12:44 PM
  #77  
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This thread brings back a lot of memories. My dad bought his first decent stereo back in the 70's. We spent many hours in the listening rooms. They were the coolest places I'd ever been in, then and now.

Not a true audiophile, but I've got my collection of LPs and about 1000 78s- most have never played. Some are test pressings- the first disc out of the new mold.

Is it me or is the word "fidelity" missing from sound system adds these days? Sheer volume seems to be the main selling point.
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Old 01-19-11, 12:45 PM
  #78  
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I still use vinyl and CD on my 'audio' system.
I only listen to MP3 or Apple format (whatever the hell that is) on
my computer, Ipod, or in the car none of which I particularly care about
sound quality.
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Old 01-19-11, 12:55 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Flying Merkel View Post
Sheer volume seems to be the main selling point.
And bass. I used to design and build high-end mobile audio systems for a living, back in the 80s. It was all about creating that "faithful" reproduction of audio. Subwoofers were part of the equation, but they were always used in moderation: a typical high-end build (several thousand $$$) had only one subwoofer in a modest enclosure, but that enclosure was carefully and thoughtfully designed and built, and the rest of the components were chosen with lots of careful consideration. Today, everyone just wants to fill their trunk space with as many crap subwoofers as will fit. It's stupid.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:00 PM
  #80  
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As long as we're on this subject, I thought I'd ask:

What do you guys use to clean LPs?

I suppose I could go to an audio board, but I trust you guys, and besides, I might inadvertently start a flame war there or something. Here, I can at least trust it to be civil.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:04 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
As long as we're on this subject, I thought I'd ask:

What do you guys use to clean LPs?
I've always used a "disc washer":

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Old 01-19-11, 01:12 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
As long as we're on this subject, I thought I'd ask:

What do you guys use to clean LPs?

I suppose I could go to an audio board, but I trust you guys, and besides, I might inadvertently start a flame war there or something. Here, I can at least trust it to be civil.
Mothers and a brass brush.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:20 PM
  #83  
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Primo stuff from the 60's (golden age of tubes, the first time)

How about Mac & Marantz tube amps and horn speakers from EV (Georgians) and Altec (Voice of the Theaters)?

Have had some of each that have just been collecting dust for years. Sad.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:31 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
As long as we're on this subject, I thought I'd ask:

What do you guys use to clean LPs?

I suppose I could go to an audio board, but I trust you guys, and besides, I might inadvertently start a flame war there or something. Here, I can at least trust it to be civil.
Sheesh, I bet that's a bad as a chain lube war. I used a VPI.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:40 PM
  #85  
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Wow does this thread take me back. My after-school job in the late 70's was as a tech at a high end audio dealer, including Adcom, Nakamichi, McIntosh, etc. Mostly I fixed speakers and changed parts for the guys who knew what they were doing. I re-coned many a JBL pro sound speaker. I ended up an electrical engineer!

Just to keep it bicycling related, I rode a Raleigh Gran Prix, with a bunch of upgraded parts, to work, until I had enough money to buy a full Campy Alan Super Record. I paid 900 bucks for that bike in 1980 and everybody thought I was crazy.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:42 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
It's analog. It is not sampled, compressed, approximated, or digitally manipulated. It is a more faithful reproduction of the material. Vintage music was originally recorded in an analog fashion, and loses something in the conversion to digital.

Find a high-end stereo shop, and you'll find newly manufactured "archaic" equipment. Plunk yourself down in their listening room, and have them play your favorite music through some McIntosh mono-blocks and a pair of, say, Martin-Logan speakers.

If you're not impressed with the richness of the sound-stage, stick with what you've got.
you're correct except for compression - there can be LOADS of compression in analog recordings.
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Old 01-19-11, 01:44 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
Interesting, I know a Gen"Y"er who collects Vinyl and preaches the "Genuine Acoustics Gospel". Having lived through it, I still enjoy my vintage set up and my collection of LP's. The "Album" was such a great format for Art and Design. I see this thread running out of control, if we start to laud the great technologies of the very recent past- don't get me started on Nikon Film Cameras or Two Stroke Italian scooters...
Uh oh, he said Vespa and Lambretta ...

Vespas were made by Piaggio, which at least for a while owned Bianchi ... there, vintage bike content at last!
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Old 01-19-11, 01:47 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Interesting comment. I spun a Linda Ronstadt LP, and then followed that up with Carol King's Tapestry for my daughter. I showed her the simple but necessary procedures for using a turntable, and while we listened she picked up the album cover and examined it very closely. She was amazed at all the ancillary information that the jacket had - she had no idea recorded music used to come with all that extra background information.

I asked her if she had ever heard of the term "liner notes". She had not - so I got to explain all that to her.

She has been studying for finals the last couple of hours, and singing/humming Carol King tunes while doing so. I opened up the world a little more for her tonight.
you're a good dad.
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Old 01-19-11, 02:14 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
I've always used a "disc washer":

Yup, I have one of those, in storage with the turntable.
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Old 01-19-11, 02:19 PM
  #90  
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you guys are speakin' my language...

...more to come
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Old 01-19-11, 03:00 PM
  #91  
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yup Discwasher. lusting for a VPI or Record Dr. cleaner.
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Old 01-19-11, 04:42 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
OK - off-topic relative to bikes, but sort of on-topic in relation to C&V.

I just put the finishing touches on some major updates to my home theater/stereo system. Had to search a bit for a decent A/V Receiver with analog pre-amp outputs and phono outs - auditioned a few, bought one/sent it back, and finally made my selection.

The ~15 year old ADCOM GFA-555II, which has been switched off for a decade, is on the bench at the local stereo repair place getting turned up slowly and reconditioned on the Variac. It is preparing for a starring role as the primary driver for the two main speakers.

(As an aside - the owner, Steve, went to high school with and is friends with Grant Peterson)

After ~10 years sitting dark, my turntable is up and spinning. I just finished listening to the B side of the album E.C. Was Here.

It was............. NICE.
You know what they say about the A/V home theater setup. AUDIO comes first and VIDEO comes second. Most people these days get into a big screen TV and forget about the audio side of things. Your ears can still follow along with everything but when you close your eyes there goes 50% of your home theater experience. I love the vintage receivers, tuners and speakers; got some cool stuff myself. Too bad they didn't invent the HDMI standard 40 years ago. Then all of our vintage stuff would be good to go today. Kind of like the bicycle thing.

I just purchased a 50" THX Certified Plasma myself. I know I got a good deal, hope you did too. Best picture out there and far better than anything on the LCD side of things including the 3D units. How is that TV working out BBM? I've heard a lot about it but have yet to see it. What else did you get into? See any good movies on it yet? Hope your holidays went well. Tell the Mrs. and the Miss I said hello.
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Old 01-19-11, 05:00 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
What do you guys use to clean LPs?
The golden standard, VPI HW16.5. I bought one the first summer after getting into vinyl. It is still going strong 10+ years later now. I use a homebrew cleaning solution with it. The VPI HW-17 is nice too as it can clean more records (internal fan), but is twice the price of the 16.5. If you have a large collection and/or enjoy thrift stores and garage sales for vinyl I recommend getting one. The Nitty Gritty ones aren't bad either, but I prefer the VPI units myself. Usually when I get a new to me album it gets cleaned on the VPI and then put back in the jacket for later listening. I have a Hunt EDA brush that I use dry to remove any dust that might be on the record once taken out of the jacket.



With today's digital music players CDs have definitely fallen out of favor. I have an upgraded stereo in my truck, and just leave a Ipod classic plugged in at all times. When I was working at the LBS we almost always listened to someones Ipod, and most times when I am working on bikes I have one of them plugged in. In the nice bedroom system I don't even have a digital source. I usually listen to vinyl on that, but do occasion listen to the ipod. Having that much music at your finger tips is a great thing. I love old stuff, but couldn't imagine living without an ipod (or few of them) today.

EDIT: I just thought of this. Every bike forum I belong to has had at least one audio equipment thread. Even if it isn't vintage bike related forum a lot of cyclists seem to be still spinnin' vinyl and listening to music through old "outdated" equipment.

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Old 01-19-11, 05:15 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by TIOS View Post
You know what they say about the A/V home theater setup. AUDIO comes first and VIDEO comes second.
I sure wish that rat-bastid salesman had mentioned something about that when I was shopping for TV's. Buying a new TV and coming out of the Dark Ages caused a pretty damn big technology refresh ripple in the BBM household. You and your brother caused me a lot of financial hardship - had to sell the Dancelli and a De Rosa.

Seriously, though - now that I have a decent A/V receiver plugged in (Onkyo NR-808), I'm pretty much good to go. The 200W/ch ADCOM GFA-555II comes off the test bench today, all tweaked and cleaned and ready to shoulder the 2-channel load to my Hales Engineering Group Revelation 3 main speakers. The Onkyo doesn't sound half bad though - and makes a pretty darn good surround-sound capable pre-amp, what with all the outputs and its 135W/ch oomph. And it even has a phono input - woot!

BTW - pre-game ride and Super Bowl party at my house. Shhhhhh....... don't tell anyone. Come on by, and drag that worthless brother of yours along.
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Old 01-19-11, 05:18 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
I've always used a "disc washer":

+1. Homebrew D4 fluid after it's gone.
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Old 01-19-11, 07:07 PM
  #96  
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I've got to play along a little.

I have about 45,000 songs on mp3 on a 500GB hard drive. I load up my Zune when I hit the highway.
I have about 300 dbx-encoded cassettes I'm slowing turning into mp3's. That is, one 45-minute mp3 per each cassette side.
I probably have about 3000 albums, which I prefer. I, too, have a Discwasher, in the walnut case.

Had a Pioneer SX780 just like bbm's, wishI'd never sold it, but when I played the 1812 Overture through it, it clipped and shredded the rings around my speakers at the time (cheapo 3-ways). I've gathered more stuff over the years because it's a heck of a lot cheaper now.

Den (no TV):
Klipsch Forte II's.
Kenwood C-2 control amp
2x Kenwood M1 amps. One R, One L
Kenwood T-1 tuner.
Kenwood turntable until I find a new cartridge for the Rotel.
Pioneer CT-S99W cassette deck, plus a backup
SAE Noise Impulse Restorer (used by radio stations to eliminate record pops and hisses)
Pioneer 6-cassette changer (generally, only at Christmas)
Nikko reel to reel. Just got it back, heads redone, all new bands.

Bonus room (the good TV):
Advent Baby II's with a powered Advent sub hooked to a mid-level Onkyo receiver. That's my A/V setup. Loud, good, but stereo.

Garage:
Sony SAVA-7. Each speaker unit has 5 amps and it has digital processing.
All I know is they are small, self-amped, have RCA inputs, and are very loud.
Plus they have a remote that sits in my toolbox.
I run a generic, drugstore mp3 player into them that also has FM for football games.

I have a bunch of spare stuff in boxes, a dbx 224, a dbx 228, an high-end 8-track recording deck with pink noise generator and all that. I think I have a large Advent un-powered sub somewhere, with a Radio Shack mono amp I bought to power it.

As far as stereo, mono, quad, surround sound in all it's versions, I don't really get into that. To get it right, you need a speaker for each mic of the recording process, and I only know one guy who has that setup, a UofWI professor who has a wall with about 100 different speakers in it, each one EQ'd for a certain frequency.

Best listening lately has been a 45 of Good Vibrations, and Quadrophenia (if you have to ask...you won't like it, or you're too young). Though I'm not a Beatles fan, I'd like to get the original mono releases of some of their stuff.

I read Here, There, and Everywhere by a sound engineer who worked for George Martin, and the engineer says it's the best sound they had.

My high-freq hearing is shot (live for 6 weeks next to parallel runways with F-4's taking off, see what YOU can hear afterwards), but I do enjoy quality car audio, since that's where I listen to 75% of my music (via the Zune). My son "just wanted a decent stereo" in his truck, but he got a component system, anyway, that makes his Infinity setup sound great. I just can't abide poor car stereo if I can help it.

I wish I could afford McIntosh or Carver, but I can't.
However, I can play the 1812 (Cleveland Phil) without fear of anything but arrest.

As far as digital recording, we'll never really know what today's artists really sound like, since they're processed so much, even live. Now, Johnny Cash, we know how he sounded.

Oh, yeah, all my TV's are tube-type. I'm afraid Netflix is going to change that.
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Old 01-19-11, 08:24 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Oh, yeah, all my TV's are tube-type. I'm afraid Netflix is going to change that.
Ohhhhh..... Netflix. Talk about using modern technology to enhance the C&V experience. Streaming Colombo and The Rockford Files straight into my living room from the internet. Especially The Rockford Files. That show was filmed in The San Fernando Valley where I grew up, during the time I was mis-spending my teenage years. Watching an episode of that show now, I see everything I grew up with and was surrounded by - Chevy Vega's, the Jack-In-The Box clown, Standard Oil gas stations, funky fashions....... the works.

RE: the 1812 Overture - Telemarc issued a digital copy in the late 80's that was a big speaker killer, and the acid test for how good your stuff really was.

A little bit of serendipity - I went to an estate sale a couple of days ago, and passed on an old table-top 8 track deck. I did, however, pick up an August, 1972 issue of Playboy. Chock full of stereo ads - Pioneer SX727 and Kenwood KR-7200 to name a couple, as well as several multi-page spreads for music clubs... including one called the Stereo Tape Club of America, that offered 8 track tapes and a free 8 track stereo unit when you subscribed.
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Old 01-19-11, 09:28 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
RE: the 1812 Overture - Telemarc issued a digital copy in the late 80's that was a big speaker killer, and the acid test for how good your stuff really was.
That be the one, though it was called Telarc, I think. I was a 25-year old freshman 9-10 days off of Okinawa, a former Staff Sergeant, taking Music Appreciation because it was required. I bought three Telarc samplers and they had 95% of the music we had to memorize.

I took the CD to friend near Camp Lejuene who had Carver amps and KEF speakers. When played at the "ambient" level of about 12 watts, the cannons hit 622 watts. The Cleveland Phil used actual cannons, as did many during that era.

I still have the CD, but no player. The M-1 amps take the mp3 file "in stride," as do the Klipsch's.
The mp3 limits the overall range, I think.
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Old 01-20-11, 10:26 AM
  #99  
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Robbie's mention of the 1812 brings back memories... like the time we had a pair of Bose 901s hopping up and down on their bases squealing in a dealer showroom. That was with the Mahler 8th though Umm, didn't buy them.

Living room:
Two modified Rotel CD players (yes, still use CDs)
Pass Aleph preamp
Odyssey 150W/ch power amp
Von Schweikert VR4 speakers

Still have a pretty good collection of LPs (rock and classical), but don't have my Thorens 320 setup currently. Also have a Counterpoint tube preamp in the basement not in use at the moment.

Used to have a Nakamichi cassette deck, Hafler amp/preamp, and an old pair of Infinity Monitors from the '70s. Almost bought the ESS AMTs with the Heil drivers instead, but decided on the Infinitys.

I have an M-Audio DAC/ADC that I may use one of these days to take some LPs to digital, just haven't gotten around to trying it for that yet.
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Old 01-20-11, 10:51 AM
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Mahler 8! I'm going to be in a concert of Mahler 8 in about two months, along with about 500 other people.

No subwoofers or electrostat tweeters, I'll be on stage with real basses and brass!
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