non-fixie 

Timmi

If this were a KLEIN, made in USA, it wouldn't be a bad bike at all. I don't know if they made any steel bikes before they specialized in welded Aluminum.

However, your paint scheme I have seen, the identical one, on I believe it was on a Centurion - (that I wanted to buy but seller refused to ship).

I think I know how this paint scheme is done - but if anyone has some tips or advice, I'm all ears.

Timmi

I've been told this might be from the region, anyone have any ideas?

It has: Ishiwata 022 tubing, Campagnolo dropouts, Ishiwata standard-issue Lugs, "BM" stamped on the headtube, and a HeadBadge outline that someone may recognise.

I started a thread HERE before someone suggested I look through this thread for a possible match - after getting carpel-tunnel syndrome from so much PgDwn I can say that no, I found none.

non-fixie 

@Timmi, thanks for posting it here.

But if we want to have a fighting chance at identifying the builder, we need more pictures of the frame. Preferably an overall shot and close-ups of the seat cluster, BB shell, fork crown, dropouts and any other details, like cut-outs and decals that might jog someone's memory.

juvela

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Detail imagini now erected -

14

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Timmi

I was wondering if there is anyone in this thread who has a vast experience with many different brands from your region.
I am trying to identify this bike.

Note: I've updated the picture collage. (as the fork we were trying to ID has been identified).

What I know about the bike:
Ishiwata 022 tubing (takes the matching 27.2mm seatpost)
Bocama Lugs .
Fork crown looks to me like number 501 from Ishiwata.
Campagnolo Dropouts.
There are no proprietary cutouts or markings (no pantograph/etchings/stampings - choose your favourite word), just the frame size 52 stamped under the BB shell and the fork.
It's probably from the 70s - see cable guides over the bottom bracket shell, and also the Ishiwata sticker looks about that age (fading and patina).
The shape of the HeadBadge outline probably holds the best clue.

non-fixie 

Timmi

Thanks. and indeed, I did some web searching before arriving at that finding. It may have been on their own website that it was mentioned Chesini made them - or if it was another source I now don't recall what it was. I did that research last year. I have a decision to make on the decals... custom: made by Chesini for VanHerwerden, or just one name or the other.

non-fixie 

Have a look at this thread. Look familiar?

If you'd like to show the rest of the frame and get some useful feedback from other Van Herwerden owners, this would be a good place to start.

Timmi

Well, actually no, it doesn't look familiar. You just rained on my parade.

Edit: See picture (originally from this message) below, in Maurice's post.
I removed mine so it doesn't show up in the thread twice in succession.

MauriceMoss

The "H" on the fork is for Hopmans. While some Hopmans frames were made in Italy, I'm not aware of any specifically made by Chesini (as is the case with Van Herwerden, who had frames made by both Chesini and Zullo). If you post pictures of the frame, we might get a better idea of its provenance.

As for the blue frame, I don't have much but I think I'll post in the other thread.

Timmi

Maurice, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am so happy to have found what it is!
And thank you for the additional information regarding Chesini AND Zullo - such are interesting details it is always good to know.

Here is a picture of the whole bike. But again here, it has no special markings. ...and it is a repaint.
The front fork dropouts are Gipiemme, I'll have to scrape some paint off the rear ones before I can see anything there (but of course, I would expect it to be the same).

non-fixie 

Thanks for setting the record straight! The Hopmans H does indeed look different. Glad the weather over the OP's parade cleared up.

Timmi

OK, now I am really enthused!
It appears that Hopmans is the name of a bike shop (and their racing team), and that these bikes were made by... Ciöcc !
(just as for the Concorde brand) So, that's pretty cool.

See here: https://www.reesfiets.nl/product/hop...corpione-61cm/

Now, if anyone has complementary (or contradictory) evidence, I am very interested.

mkeller234

MauriceMoss

They do look pretty similar. Maybe too similar - perhaps that's why Hopmans changed to the crab:



And yes, let's hope for continued clear skies in the forecast

MauriceMoss

While it's possible that Ciocc built frames for Hopmans, I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion based on the linked bike. I have not come across other sources claiming Ciocc was a source for Hopmans. I have seen claims that some Hopmans bikes were "made by Concorde".
Veltec (parent company of Concorde) contracted multiple companies for the bikes they sold. Top frames were built in Italy (Ciocc and Billato, possibly others) but there were other suppliers, including outfits in Belgium.

And since the linked bike is for sale, it's probably got a better chance of selling if it's claimed to be a Ciocc rather than an unknown.
It does have Ultech dropouts (which were used on a lot of Concordes) yet it doesn't look like a Ciocc product (or a Concorde) to me but, who knows.
There were some Granchio models that you could say closely resemble some Concordes.

As for your frame, it's hard to tell from the picture, but it could be an Italian bike. The lugs look different than on any Hopmans or Concorde I've seen so far. It's difficult to say what shop/factory your frame came from.

Timmi

Yes, I too saw that classifieds posting in my search results, where the guy says it was made by Concorde. But I believe that is exactly the sort of mistake the populace makes: something comes from the same source, and people get confused with source and what is made by the same source.

So you say Ciöcc and Billato. Interesting, thank you for that additional piece of information.
I do find it interesting, that a model named Scorpione have a crab as an emblem (or perhaps the crab is just for Hopmans and not the model).

Regarding looks:
When there is a large order, or there is a a business relationship in place with a customer who places repeated orders over time - it is to be expected that the customer (Hopmans in this case) be given options - many options in fact (lugs, tubing, finish). Where something may not be worth it for a customer who order just one bike - this is a very different situation - and they will put into place a supply chain (sourcing and volume pricing) to get what is needed to satisfy that large client.

For these reasons, I think that we should not be surprised if from one source, two different resellers have different looking offerings. An identical look could support the theory of a common source, but a different look is not necessarily a contradiction.

browngw 

Just acquired this unique and beautiful Royal Nord President three speed with 28 x1 1/2" Crown Special alloy rims. The hub and shifter are Made in England Brampton. The marble green paint, painted fitted rack and painted flourishes are beautiful to see. The company made mostly mopeds and motorcycles between 1927 and 1967 and some bicycles as well it appears. The "President" and "Commander" are the only two model names I've seen. I have started a thread here Royal Nord President circa 1967

OTS 

Late to see this but it is a beauty.
Very nice and a great find.
should be a fun project.

jamesdak 

Hmmm, in case anyone stumbles on this in a search. He responded several times to my email inquires a couple of months ago and was very helpful.

jamesdak 

I guess I can add my "weird" bike to the mix. I found this locally last fall after noticing the signs of a qualily frame in the sellers ad. Had no clue what it really was. Picked it up and some internet posting led me to Eddy Martens of Martelly bikes. He confirmed he made it in 1985 but could not answer on how it wound up painted like it is with Ribble badging. I asked about it with Ribble too and all they could do is confirm it was Martelly built but no clue on how it wound up badged as a Ribble. It was dead on winter here when I got it so it's still waiting for clean roads so I can take it on it's maiden voyage.





















If I like the ride once I get it out then I may use the brand new Ultegra R8000 groupset I have on hand to update this one. I think that would look great.

non-fixie 

Thank you! I was hoping it would show up here.

non-fixie 

Beautifully made. Maybe we should do a separate thread on all those frames the Martens' built for others.

non-fixie 

While I'm at it: here's an update on the unidentified Belgian from post # 549. Since I entered it in the Clunker Challenge, funds for refurbishment were somewhat limited, but it came out rather nicely anyway, if I say so myself.