lotek 

very nice Mel.
I'm going to repaint my old one white with blue details/decals.
I've chosen Pantone Reflex Blue as the color for the decals.
hopefully I'll get the proof sheet soon!

Marty

Elev12k

Sounds good Marty

While browsing the web for Zieleman I encountered this one >> https://velospace.org/node/37411

Also a nice example.

lotek 

I've seen that Yellow/Red one before. It's similar to the one I got with only a cable stop
braze on. The fork crown and lugs on that one are different than mine, maybe Ko used
different lugs for chroming, or mine is just a cheaper version of a type special.

Marty

Elev12k

None of them were cheap, but the one under the link has possibly extras or simply different execution.

What did your NR mech say? Patent??

Zielemans often show interesting and sometimes even quirky customized detailing. A lot was possible. Good example are the Campagnolo 1010 dropouts on the golden Zieleman I am working on now: Ko shaved a bit material of the back of the dropouts and than brazed the eyelet back on. It looks like the cut adjustment screws sit fixated in the dropouts. There are drilling in the flanges to save additional weight. Other alterations include 3 ellips shaped cut outs in the shell and multiple cut outs and slots in lugs and crown.

lotek 

pretty sure my RD is PAT 73. but I have to go back and double check that.
I'm also not entirely sure that it was original to the frame.
I'll post some pictures of what came with it when I get home later.
Haven't begun to clean it all up it has at least 35 years worth of
crud on it.
By cheap I mean plain, no extra details like chrome, or braze ons.

Marty

mandrake

I see postings of Dutch bikes from time to time and they are always appealing. I wonder if anyone can identify what is the facination with bikes like Zieleman, RIH, Gazelle, etc.
Are they an esp. good value for the amount of craftsmanship put into them?

lotek 

well given that both of my Zieleman frames were free I'd say they're a good value!
Truthfully, neither one has especially outstanding lugwork, but a remarkably high
amount of craftsmanship. What it boils down to for me is the ride, at least with
my newer ca. 1974 model. It just does what it's supposed to do, no questions
asked. I find it to be a very stable, responsive ride. It isn't the fastest bike
into the corners I own, but it soaks up the road surface (chip and seal) better than any other
bike I've ridden. Maybe it's because Ko built bikes to ride over cobbles.
He had very definite ideas about tubing, and geometry of a bike.

My RIH rides very well also, but a bit different than my Zieleman, a bit more 'plodding'
and restrained. Can't talk about Gazelle as I haven't ridden one in years.
My Jan de Reus again, the ride. One of the quicker bikes I've been
honored to own, dove into corners and accelerated like a
scalded cat.

mandrake

That's it- let the ride decide.

Chicago Al 

That white one...what a beauty!

I only vaguely knew the name Zeileman as a Dutch nameplate along with Presto, RIH, etc. until this summer. During the Dutch cycling tour my wife and I did, we stayed overnight at a B&B outside Utrecht, and the owner let us put our Clydesdale-like Multicycles in his shed. Already in there were two gorgeous Zeilemans, one blue and one yellow. IIRC both had full pantographing, both had Campy groups, both had lugs with heart cutouts, though there were some differences between them. One of the two had Bluemels Club Specials, the first time I'd seen them as well.

I admired them and took another look at them the next morning, but I really wish I had asked the owner to show them to me a little closer or even take one around the block. Both were smallish, around 52cm, which I know is unusual for the very tall Nederlanders, but the owner I am pretty sure was Indonesian-Dutch so about my sensible height, and his wife quite petite. Anyway, I didn't even take a pic in that crowded shed, and of course have been thinking about those bikes ever since! I may see if I can email the owner and get more info from him. He clearly was attached to them (I think they were his-and-hers) so I don't think an offer to buy would get very far.

But as Mel knows I am not-too-seriously looking for a smallish Zeileman...might even pay a bit more than Marty did for his!

Elev12k

Mandrake,

I haven't made many miles on a Zieleman yet, but that they ride beautifully is what I hear all the time from people who did ride them. Those people not only rode Zielemans. They also raced with frames from other very well known established names. I did make many miles with my Jan de Reus. The Reus suits my preferences very well and so far I consider it the best riding bike given the circumstances overhere.

On the build quality of the Zieleman I can say that they are all one offs. Zieleman like the white one from the previous page and my blue/yellow one show a lot dedication to doing everything very tidy. They even look flamboyant, with all the chrome. I have also seen Zielemans -my golden one is a good example- that seem to be built with a more pragmatic attitude. Ko spent a lot of time on the rear drop outs and apparently when everything had put together there was no time left to do it in a very tidy manner. What all Zielemans do share is a sincere vision by the builder on what works best for the rider to make him perform as good as possible in competion. That is what the frames are build for. Remember that for Dutch a bicycle is a quite utilitarian piece of equipment and that is reflected in the Zieleman quite well.

buldogge

Mel... I'm sure I've said it before...but...I love that white Zieleman of yours!

Also, I agree on the Reus ride comments...a bike that just wants to get up and go...and corners like it is on rails.

OT, Any progress on the Presto???

Elev12k

No progress on the black Presto front

There is one serving however


Serier built

Italuminium

This is no bad bike either! lovely shade of paint. is the fork original?

humanreisberg

Hi everybody,

here is a pic of my early seventies Zieleman frame set, still waiting to be completed:



The fork is made from Columbus tubings, the frame is a Reynolds 531 tubing. The Reynolds decal doesn't shows the "TI" logo, which dates it to Pre1974/75.

Regards

Kilian

pullup

Another silver one it looks very good. Was it custom build for you ?

At the moment I am stripping my old Zieleman to use some of the parts for the RIH.

For next year I think I have some ideas for repainting parts of the frame so I just might need Lotek' s decal source.

Elev12k

Sure it is! It is the kind of fork that came with most 70s Prestos.

Presto 'Model Tour Speciaal' with same model fork, but in this case with long blades. The bike came setup with Universal Model 68 brakes. Long reach in front, short reach in rear!


Legrand, 1975

Bertus Slesker built Presto with the fork in the background:



Drilled end flanges of 1975 Presto 'Model Jan Legrand':

humanreisberg

No, this frame set is three years older than me. I purchased it via marktplaats a while ago. Luckily, it is my size 59c-c.

Elev12k

Very nice Kilian.

I don't think the 1010B dropouts (they are short 1010B's right?) are that old. Possibly a couple years younger than 74.

humanreisberg

Hi elev12k,

yes, these are the short version dropouts. The tubing decal is the only fact i have and i know the TI logo came about 74/75. I also think this is probably a frame from the seventies (cable braze ons).

guidogad

All Zieleman owners,
I would like to give it a go and see if I can figure out how to read the Zieleman serial numbers.
I'll start this here and if I get a start will open a new thread.
So, if you want to help, give me some data. The serial number and the vintage of the bike (and how you know or estimate the vintage). Either here or via PM.
Much appreciated.
Cheers,
Guido

mandrake

Thanks for the reply. Like many things, it is hard to beat something "tailor made" for you. Also, it is great knowing the person who actually made it.
I have heard the Dutch take their cycling seriously. This is evident in some of the pictures I have seen of train depots and the like literally overflowing with bicycles locked up. Makes me want a Dutch bike that much more. Hopefully, someday...

Elev12k

Yes, bikes have an important position in Holland. Not a leissure thing, but the no.1 mobility mode for short distances in the 1st place. Other traffic shows an attitude of respect towards cyclists. Recently I were cycling with a UK friend on the small isle Texel and he were surprised a car driver allowed us to go 1st on a crossing. Also in legislation the bicycle has a special position: within village/city borders the car is always wrong in an accident, unless...

Elev12k

Hmm... good idea. I am afraid most of my Zielemans have no serial however. I have one serial starting with '75' what I think is a 1975 frame and another starting with '78' what I believe is 1978 frame. I'll have to check the full serials.

The other frames lack a serial. Maybe Ko could simply remember each frame and to who it belonged, so there was no real need for stamping a serial.

mandrake

Please don't take this as a judgement on your English, because I am certain it is way better than my... well any other language. Substitute "was" for "were" in the above cases. Why? because you are stating a certainty. Do a Web search for more info. if you are interested (then you will know more about it than I do).

guidogad

That's was the initial idea. My silver one starts with 79 and the previous owner told me it was a 1979 but I have no idea how reliable that is. I'm mostly confused by pullup's serial starting with a 77 while he bought the bike new in 75 (see earlier post). I was thinking maybe there was a sequence like with the Gazelle bikes: https://fivenineclimber.com/bikes/gaz...al_numbers.htm
It would be great to get some more 'hard' data in particular were the vintage is known for sure and maybe the serial number doesn't show any obvious connection to it.
Cheers,
Guido