PayPal shipping is being taken over by eBay procedures.
Of course, they're not showing that on either site.

Both are ignoring/violating their own procedures, or failing to recognize them....

I highly recommend not shipping overseas until it straightens out.

For example:
You sell a set of wheels to a buyer in Taiwan. He pays via PayPal.

PayPal takes it's fee. eBay eventually will, too.

The money is put on hold (I have an excellent, current sales rating).

According to both eBay and PayPal, you should print a label. I have no clue what happens if you print an eBay label. eBay tells me they send you a prepaid label. I doubt that.

If you confirm the PayPal recpt of funds to your PayPal account, even if they're held, the site asks you to print a label. You click on "Print Shipping Label." This is your first mistake.

According to both sites, if you print a label using eBay, eBay will refund you $15.00 for postage from the held funds, or up to 30% of the total amount if it's a big sale. If you print a label using PayPal, the tracking number will be generated and you will be reimbursed the shipping amount into your PayPal account. You have to mark the item as shipped, and if the tracking number isn't generated, you key one in. It's very clear.

However, it won't happen. eBay will say, since you didn't use eBay's label process, you will continue to have the funds held , even the shipping, until delivery, which is another issue I'll address further down. eBay will say it's PayPal's responsibility. eBay will not escalate your issue to a supervisor or manager. PayPal will claim that it's eBay's responsibility, and even when you talk to the person who releases the funds, he will advise he can't release the shipping costs, or any amount, until 3 days after the item has been delivered.

So, neither will take resposibility for the issue, blaming the other, and you're pretty much done. Ypu've paid for shipping from your own pocket, and you may never get reimbursed. You hope for delivery to be swift, so you can get your money.

BUT WAIT.... since you sent it internationally, and you printed your label at home, you cannot get tracking on it. The label you print is a US Customs form, and the USPS cannot scan it. You have no way of proving it was even mailed. If you're lucky, you can get confirmation that it cleared customs. That won't suffice for eBay or PayPal. You can call USPS and they'll find it, if it's stateside, but that doesn't matter to PayPal or eBay.

So, you are waiting for delivery, 8000 miles away, to get paid. How are you going to know this occurred? You are not, unless the buyer acknowledges receipt with feedback. Now, the buyer can leverage this against you, and knows it. USPS does not track into other countries, in general.

If the buyer decides to resell your item, trash it, keep it, or throw it away, you are really powerless to stop it. USPS does not track into foreign countries. There is a chance, eBay advised, that the funds will be released 3 days after delivery. Of course, there is no way to determine that, short of hiring a PI to confirm the buyer has the item.

So, other than Lenton58 and my BF colleagues everywhere, I'm not shipping overseas until PayPal/eBay gets it straight. I may continue to use PayPal domestically, but I'm sure loving the USPS money order these days.
Now I know what Kurt was talking about.

Whew. My eyes glazed over just reading about it. I can't imagine going through it. No international sales for me. That's ugly.

I don't quite follow. I have sold a few items to Japan and Italy lately and my funds have not been held. In fact, it seemed to be business as usual. Is this a brand new development? They were small items shipped in a Priority Mail flat rate box. The buyers were made aware that there is no tracking or insurance included and they shouldn't expect any if they paid only $15 to have something delivered to them half way around the world.

Perhaps I'm in the right alternate universe, I'm not experiencing the problem described with either Ebay or Paypal. Most of my sales this year (85%) has been International or my hobby would be at near ebb. My gripe is that domestic shipping, what ever the amount, Ebay is now taking their percentage(3%) and they won't alert or threaten de-listing you item for the amount of shipping you charge to Ebay members(they got you covered).

$400 sale. Nothing in my sales history to flag it. Nothing in my buying history to flag it.
Buyer has decent numbers, 100%. I have about triple his, 100%.

The PayPal guy says "I don't know why the system failed you on this, but I can't fix it, it's eBay's hold."

The eBay guy says "It's PayPal's hold. The buck stops here and I'm not passing it, or helping you."
Literally.

Now I know how Yossarian felt. If I had a B-17, I know exactly where I'd fly it.

It's not just overseas sales! Every sale I have made lately has had the funds held till the product arrived or the buyer left feedback. I have 100% positive feedback and have been a member since 2001.... I you do not use delivery confirmation to show it arrived I think the funds are held for 21 days or till feedback is left for you. Ebay Sucks PERIOD!

Yeah, I am not having any funds held ( knock on wood ) but I went ahead and killed the international shipping options.

Ebay just started holding my funds. You can get a confirmation or tracking number from the post office and enter it into ebay and they'll supposedly release the funds 3 days after delivery, but I haven't tried it yet. I have 84 feedback 100% positive.

I had a somewhat similar pass the buck experience with ebay customer "service". I called about my power seller ratings being messed up. Guy agreed with me, but said it was a problem with "the system", so their was nothing that could be done about. My response to him was it was not the system, it was EBAY'S system, designed, built and owned by ebay. So if ebay could not do anything about their system, who could? I got no where of course.

Some time ago, I received an email from paypal stating that they would be holding my sale's money for 15 days because of my rating. I have only 29 feedbacks, and all of them were positive. It aggravated me, and I made up my mind that I was not going to sell on ebay. Two weeks ago, I received another email telling me that the hold on my funds had been removed. Nothing had changed, but the hold had been lifted. I may start selling again, but I'm going to do it sparingly.

I have also had some issues with funds being held recently what bugged me is E-bay gave no notice that they had changed there policy. I had sold items earlier in the year with no holds. Recently they have held funds on some transactions and cleared the funds on other with no real explanation. When I called customer service at pay pal and ebay they claimed the policy was for my own good and intended to promote customer service on the part of sellers. I just don't get how withholding fund from sellers is suppose to promote better service. I ended up having to cancel opt out off a couple of foriegn sales as I was about to go out of pocket for costs with no clue ass to when I would get the funds.

To the people that are having funds held as of late-

Are you Powersellers or have a EBay store?

As far as I know they are doing it mostly to the small or occasional sellers. But I have heard complaints of E-bay making larger sellers have substantial amounts held indefiantly to cover potential charge backs.

I recently purchased something via paypal. just as clicked "confirm" I realized I purchased the wrong item. I called the online business and canceled the order. no harm, no foul. the seller refunded my money immediately. a few days later, I receive an email from paypal saying I'm on some sort of probation and any future received payments to me will be held for up to 21 days. after 21 days or more, the money is released to me. so, basically, if I receive money via paypal for a sale, I do not have access to this money for nearly a month....all for no particular reason.

ridiculous.

Ungh. Ebay can be such a pain in the arse. I'm glad that I do not ship internationally and this gives me an easier out for those that ask. Thanks for the heads-up.

I have 254 feedback, 100% positive. The buyer has 81, 100%. I had confirmation and a Customs number, used PayPal labeling and you cannot track into many countries.

My next option is to simply hold the item until funds are released. No funds, no shipping. I'll note that in the ad, "No item will be shipped until funds are released by eBay/PayPal, expect 21-day delay prior to shipping. Postal money order will result in item being shipped the same day as the money order is cashed at the post office. This policy is eBay/PayPal's policy, any questions need to be addressed to them."

No. In fact, I don't want any association with the eBastids.

You see what they are doing. They are squeezing out the small sellers on eBay.
They own CL and they pursue any site that searches CL with legal action.
I see anti-trust coming, and I'm sure they do, too. Of course, it never hurt Microsoft.
It appears they are going to throw their future behind the Powersellers, eBay stores, and their control of CL.

It's a small world.
Sooner or later I'll have a chance at 'em.

Of course, you rarely have a Claymore when you need one.

Seems pretty simple;

Don't use Scambay, or Pay pal!

They offer no protection!

Ok, Thats what I was wanting to know. I have both so it seems that I am avoiding those issues. Though my CL account was recently place on "hold" whatever that is. So a new account was made.

When I was doing that Yeti listing it wouldn't let me insist on postal MO or wire transfer for the auction.

Ebay's and now PayPal's policies are pushing me out of the game. I think them to be greedy, self serving and have absolutely no interest in protecting the people that pay their way - the Sellers.

So, expect to see less and less of my stuff on Ebay, and I always try for a direct bank transfer, these days. The first time PayPal holds my money, will be the last time I sell anything, using the PayPal vehicle, other than donations to my website.

Too bad that greed seems to always corrupt. And it seems to corrupt those who have the most. Go figure???

You guys are nuts. Do you really thing a buyer is going to use western union or a money order? I know I wouldn't buy something using these methods, you would be asking to get scammed. Paypal serves an important purpose in assuring the buyer has no problems. Probably 90% of buyers wouldn't even be in the market without the safety and reassurance paypal offers.

As far as ebay fees, I think they are fair. The stuff I sell on ebay has zero local market. For example, I went to a swap meet a couple of weeks ago. One seller had a nice 27.2 c-record aero seatpost for $10 . It had been sitting on his table for hours and probably had 400 people walk past it. It probably wouldn't have sold if I hadn't walked by. Something like this would easily sell for $100 or more on ebay. Is it worth a 12% fee to sell your item for 90% more than you could locally??

On ops problem I am not sure whats going on. Priority mail international packages have tracking. Envelopes don't, thats why I use express mail international for envelops. I let all my buyers know I must be able to track packages so the shipping price is high. You are asking to get burned by shipping without tracking.
I don't know what ops talking about with ebay refunding shipping? Must be some promotional thing not everyone gets.
On shipping labels, you print the label on your printer and tape it to the box. You get a slight discount over what the post office charges. I don't know what you're talking about with mailing a shipping label.
Paypal holds the money of small sellers to cover their ass. There are a lot of scammers out there and paypal looses a lot of money each year refunding scammed buyers. If you are selling something you wouldn't even be able to sell locally do you really miss the money for a couple of days? If you don't like it sell your stuff somewhere else. If ebay and paypal were so bad how come nobody can come up with an alternative?

Exactly. I'll still accept PayPal, with the understanding that nothing ships until the funds are available, but if a money order is sent, shipping is immediately upon receipt.

That way, any delays are purely the result of eBay/PayPal's procedures, not mine.

If you wait weeks until the money clears, the Seller will not be eligible for Paypal Seller Protection (PSP), assuming he or she has it. To be eligible, a Seller must ship within a week IIRC. Thus I can picture a situation where you waited 3 weeks, got the money cleared, sent the item with USPS Global Express Guaranteed (GXP) with electronic delivery confirmation, and yet the Buyer still later says the item was not delivered, and files an Item Not Received (INR) with Paypal/Ebay. Then Paypal reverses the Paypal payment, taking your money back, or freezing your account if the money's not there. Then you the Seller file for PSP. But you did not ship in a week. In this scenario you loose your claim, and in additional loose your money or effectively loose the use of your account until you submit to the system and hand back the money.

Want to point out that Ebay's policy on money orders is quite clear (if you can find it!) A Seller may not imply in any way shape or form either in his auction or ebay emails that he or she will take money orders. Yet if an actual or prospective Buyer requests to pay by money order, the Seller may accept the request.

Kinda weird, along the lines of the old "don't ask, don't tell" military policy, but that's the rule.

To some extent the eBay computer system will attempt to filter and knock out auctions that solicit money orders. If the solicitation is subtle however, you may be able to get away with it for some time before someone rats you out (the self-policing "Report This Item" feature which any eBay member might employ against you, anonymously.)