Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Another Paramount PDG question or two

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Another Paramount PDG question or two

Old 12-09-11, 11:39 AM
  #1  
Jay1524
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another Paramount PDG question or two

1) It appears as though Paramount PDG series bikes were only made from 1991 to 1994. I assume I am incorrect since I just bought what looks like a PDG Paramount with a serial number of 0K01168 stamped just above the front forks. This would suggest it was made November of 1990. Could this be?

2) The bike color is cherry red with black lettering. I can't find any other Paramount's with this color. Directly below the tube mounted shifters in black letters it says "Ultimate, need we say more."

I have no information regarding the frame although it is lugged. On the rear wheel dropouts it is stamped Tange so I can only guess it is 4130 tubing.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Jay1524 is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 02:20 PM
  #2  
owen006
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fruithurst, AL
Posts: 44

Bikes: 2010 Scattante XRL COMP, 1995 Cannondale R500-2.8 Aluminum, 1991 Paramount Series 5, 1985 Club Fuji, 198? Puch customized, 1971, Puch Clubman, 2003 Giant Sedona, and various others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here is a link to Waterford Bicycles website. They have Schwinn catalogs scanned. You can look through them. I don't believe they have any 94 PDG Paramounts and the ones they did make changed to STI shifter in 92 and 93. I have a 91 Series 5.

https://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.p...ommand=showall
owen006 is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 04:11 PM
  #3  
Japanamount
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Posts: 38

Bikes: 1991 Schwinn Paramount Series 5 2013 Specialized Hardrock Disc 29'r

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by owen006 View Post
I have a 91 Series 5
Me, too!

Now, to the original question.... I thought '91 was the first year for them and I didn't know they sold "Series" Paramounts from '94 onward.

J.
Japanamount is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 04:35 PM
  #4  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
A picture would help.

The "K" in the s/n would indicate October, so it could possibly be a 1991 model year, but the only red PDG Series Paramount was the Series 2 which wasn't available until the '92 model year, based on the Waterford website Paramount history pages, so I don't know.

Is the fork unicrown? What component group is in the bike?

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 04:49 PM
  #5  
RobbieTunes
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,370 Times in 884 Posts
We need a picture.

Welcome, too!
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 09:38 PM
  #6  
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Posts: 8,382
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Scooper, does the "K" in the serial number not indicate "road bike"?
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 10:30 PM
  #7  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Scooper, does the "K" in the serial number not indicate "road bike"?
Justin, in the "self-describing" Waterford serial numbering scheme, for certain years and in the "company code" location within the serial number, K does mean road bike. At the "month code" location in the serial number, K = October. The Series Paramounts don't follow the "self-describing" serial numbering scheme, though, and I believe they're more like the production bikes which use letters A through M (excluding the letter "I" which can be confused with the number "1") for the month. I've never seen the coding explanation for the Series Paramount serial numbers, though, so I could be mistaken.

Here's the "self-describing" serial numbering scheme for the Waterford Paramounts from around late 1984/early 1985 to 1994.

Self-Describing Serial Numbers

This system started in use during the mid-eighties (sometime between September, 1984 [J8496] and April, 1985 [520AD8584]) to 1994. It consisted of six components:

- Size Code: The size code represented the center to top seatmast measurement, rounded to the nearest 5mm. For example, a 55cm frame had a serial number starting with 550. Mountain bikes required rounding since they were built in one or two inch size increments. Occasionally, custom frames might not have the same size as indicated by the serial number.

- Product Code: This was not applied consistently. Up to some point in the early 90's, it designated the fork length with forks short bikes getting an "A" progressing to large forks getting an "E". Later, it was used to designate the kind of frame: A=Road, B=Off-Road, C=650C Road, E=Track.

- Company Code: In the 80's the code indicated the type of bike, where K=road bike. Later, especially after the formation of Waterford, this letter indicated the company. K was for Paramount and L was for Waterford.

- Factory Code: A "W" followed to indicate a bike coming from the Waterford factory.

- Month Code: This one letter code corresponds to the month with A=January, B=February and so on. Because I is not used, September=J and December=M.

- Year Code: This two digit code is the last two digits of the year - 96 is 1996.

- Sequence Number: This three digit number represents the nth frame and/or fork scheduled during the month.

Example: 540AKWE91042 was a 54cm road racing Paramount built at the Waterford factory. It was the 42nd frame built in May of 1991.


My 1987 Waterford Paramount's serial number is 620E WK 87077, which is broken down as:

620 = frame size in mm from crank center to top of seat tube

E = Longest steerer tube fork

W = Waterford

K = October

87 = 1987

077= the sequence number of the frame in October, 1987

In 1987, there was no indication either in the product code or company code position of the type of bike.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.

Last edited by Scooper; 12-09-11 at 10:34 PM.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-09-11, 10:40 PM
  #8  
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Posts: 8,382
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanks, Stan!

I'm wrapping up the build on a '90 Paramount OS. The frame was in poor condition, so I powder coated it. I think you'll dig it. The serial number is 620MEW M90093.

Let's see some pics of your Paramount, Jay!
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline  
Old 12-10-11, 08:21 AM
  #9  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Thanks, Stan!

I'm wrapping up the build on a '90 Paramount OS. The frame was in poor condition, so I powder coated it. I think you'll dig it. The serial number is 620MEW M90093.

Let's see some pics of your Paramount, Jay!
In the case of your '90 Paramount, the "M" following the 620 frame size indicates oversize tubing, the "E" is the length of the fork steerer, the "W" is Waterford, the "M" is December, the "90" is 1990, and the "093" means it was the 93rd frame scheduled for production in December, 1990.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-10-11, 10:20 AM
  #10  
Casey Jones
Senior Member
 
Casey Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pensacola/Destin, FL
Posts: 166

Bikes: 2007 Specialized Roubaix 1987 Bianchi Strada

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For the OP's bike, if it was produced late in '90, couldn't it possibly still be a '91. Also, Were they still custom making paramounts? If so, could this explain the paint color difference. I'm still new, bare with me.
Casey Jones is offline  
Old 12-10-11, 11:41 AM
  #11  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
For the OP's bike, if it was produced late in '90, couldn't it possibly still be a '91. Also, Were they still custom making paramounts? If so, could this explain the paint color difference. I'm still new, bare with me.
We haven't heard anything from the OP since his first post. With the serial number stamped "just above the front forks" and not following the Waterford serial number scheme, it just about has to be an imported Series Paramount, which weren't ever custom. Since it's red, and the only red Series Paramount was the Series 2 which wasn't made until the 1992 model year, I'm stumped until the OP chimes in.

Here's the 1992 Series 2.

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-10-11, 07:37 PM
  #12  
Jay1524
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry, I haven't been online for a bit. I would love to post some pictures but at the moment I'm unable. To answer some questions, it has a mix of Shimano components. Mostly 600 and RX100. It does have a uni-crown fork. I'm starting to wonder if someone "made" their own Paramount since it doesn't fit with anything The only thing I know with any certainty is the serial number is not on the bottom bracket. I appreciate the help and once I am able to take some pictures I will post them. That said, it will be mid-January before that happens.

Ironically, it does look very similar to the picture posted by Scooper but the 0K serial number throws a wrench into the works.
Jay1524 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gioscinelli
Classic & Vintage
23
12-24-18 08:54 AM
silvercreek
Classic & Vintage
2
06-22-12 08:43 AM
RFC
Classic & Vintage
12
04-02-12 03:05 PM
RFC
Classic & Vintage
3
11-28-11 04:46 PM
3speed
Classic & Vintage
10
04-26-11 06:45 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.