Not only Peugeot, but other makers also, would feature previous year models in sales literature. I've seen Peugeot literature purporting to exemplify the same year model that clearly showed different setups. I suspect that not only was the previous year model used in the ads and pamphlets, but in some instances they used whatever photograph they had on hand - perhaps even two or three years previous. Peugeot seems to have assembled bikes with decals and parts based upon existing stock, so a clearly delineated line distinguishing between one year to the next is almost impossible sometimes. The topic (or better yet, the morass!) of Peugeot serial numbers has been discussed at length in these forums. Nearly the only definitive thing that might be said about those is that we have yet to break the code - if, indeed, there ever was one. I've dated my own PX10 based upon the confluence of details in decals, decal placement, lugs, etc. Even though I feel moderately justified in calling it a 1972, I'm really more comfortable designating it as an early 70's example.

FWIW, I've relied on the sage threads and comments of BFers like MiamiJim on many occasions. Peugeot never imagined folks like us would be debating the minutiae that we do; quite understandably, they didn't have the foresight (unlike Schwinn, for instance) to leave us with the details necessary to figure out serial numbers, etc. Fact of the matter is that it takes looking at a bunch of Peugeot bikes to begin to unravel some of the mystery and even if someone manages to come up with a Rosetta Stone, we'll probably still be debating where these bikes fit into the timeline. I'm quite satisfied to believe that there are going to be substantial differences between bikes from one framer to the next on the Peugeot assembly line.

Says who? And what's an 'E'?

Well since I said in the full quote I guess says me. I could definitely be wrong and you are definitely telling me I am and I get that. I based my statement on the fact that all the plain lug PX10s I have seen have had all the other characteristics of an early 70s PX10, the only catalog images I have seen of plain lug PX10s are in the 73 catalogs and flyers, and I assume they are showing a previous year model. If you tell me that Peugeot randomly turned out plain lug PX10s throughout the early 70s I guess I will believe you.

And I don't know what you mean by what's an E? The PX10E was the model designation given to the highest (or next to highest after the PX10LE was introduced) model in the Peugeot racing/sport line in the early 70s. As shown in the catalogs on your site and many others and as remembered by me when I was alive in the early 70s. Am I wrong about that too?

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Fra...10_history.htm

[QUOTE=miamijim;14337523]

"No offense but almost everything in your post is incorrect or heresay.....

1. Frame geometry: There's no reason why some Pugeots have steep geometry and others don't. The year of manufactur has nothing to do with it.
2. Number of digits in serial number = decade built. Urban legend. Sometimes it holds true, sometimes it doesn't. I have pictures of a late 60's PX10 w/ a 5 digit number.
3. Plenty of '72's have Nervex fancy lugs. 2 of mine did.

Here's the breakdown on the OP's bike:

Very simply it's a '70-'73 PX10. Peugeot moved the Reynolds decal to the downtube in '74 so it pre-'74. Square or what I'll call 'Type II' decals are found primarily on '70 and later bikes. So there it is, '70-'73."



Good points, Jim, about the handlebars and rims having date stamps, I forgot about the bars, but some of the later ones also have a date on the stem quill.

I don't use catalog info at all, but had read the CR list info in the past, and understood (agreeing with you here) that early-70's PX10 serial numbers were unreliable.
I rely mostly on the rear derailer date as the best indicator, and as I recall, the bars tended to be dated very closely to the derailer anyway.

I'm sure that there was definitely a reason why some PX10's have steep geometry and others don't. It was a huge decision in making such a profound change!
It also seems logical that after the change in geometry was made, that all same-sized PX10's were made to the same dimensional specs for a good period of time. BTW, my PX10LE with W.C. stripes still has the 76+ degree geometry. I have no dated parts for it (unless the Phillipe bars are dated) and the sewup rims aren't stamped with anything.

I assume that the dates on the components are consistent within several months of when the frame was made and the bike assembled. There was little reason for them to stockpile years worth of parts when production was humming along, and even if they made huge bulk contract purchases then the parts would have likely been delivered as needed.

While I don't think that they jumped back and forth with their geometry over any short interval, the date of change could have been mid-year, and could have been months different from when they changed lugs, printed catalogs, or celebrated New Year's day.

The bikes with 1972 components and Nervex Pro lugs were likely justmade at a different time of year than those plain-lugged versions.
Oh, and what type of geometry did your 1972's with fancy lugs have?

What you have to understand about the CR site is that the serial number inormation is wrong. Period. I'm not saying it's wrong, everyone else. They've been told about it but for some reason refuse to change it. My information is simply a collaboration of data that comes to the same conclusion as ewveryone except CR.

I'd give component date codes a 6 month gap or so. If a parts manufactured in July it gets shipped to the bike company where it's built into a bike, from there the bike get shipped to a distributer in the U.S. From there it makes it on to the showroom floor. Things moved alot slower back then and others have noted that stock wasn't rotated to well back then. I dont think I'd date a bike to within a few months of the latest code.

I agree with you on the geometry....I'm sure there's a reason but it jumped around from year to year and model to model. It wouldn't surprise me if some bikes have it and others dont within the same model and year.

Both of my '72's had laid back geometry.

This is absolutely my (without-enough-facts-to-back-me-up) conviction as well as yours. The only part I might possibly find difference with - and this is without foundation either, merely suspicion - is that I'm not certain there actually is a hard and fast "reason" for the differences in geometry. I've suspected for some time that during the late sixties/early seventies (perhaps longer), Peugeot framers were not operating under the strictest of controls and that each was assembling to his own personal methodologies and daily practice.

I am about as sure as can be that the geometry specifications were not left to the whims of quality control or the assembler.
The frame assemblers wern't particularly educated in most cases and would never be left to decide on a frame's geometry.
Peugeot was a huge outfit, and the change came as a result of a major marketing decision and/or possibly a management change, but was not arbitrary.
They were apparently trying to out-Italian the Italians, and/or as another Forum participant suggested they were trying to capitalize on the growth of criterium racing.

The geometry change would require gross adjustments to the mitering equipment, fixtures and tube lengths. In short, the entire production line process was tweaked, and Peugeot's high rate of production meant that there would be different people doing different specific tasks, so everyone would have to be on board with even the slightest change to a frame's geometry.

Peugeot did quite well with quality control imo, given that their low prices meant that workers were expected to be efficient and work very fast.

Lastly, I suspect that the geometry changes occurred perhaps mid-year in 1973, and that some might consider my PX10 with it's early-1973 rear derailer, Nervex Pro lugs and steep geometry to be a 1974 model, noting here that the Reynolds sticker is on the downtube on this one.