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Unknown frame identification

Old 10-16-12, 10:17 PM
  #1  
ldorchester12
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Unknown frame identification

So about a year back I bought a frame off of craigslist. I didnít realize what I had because the frame has been completely stripped and repainted. There is not even a head badge. I went home for the weekend and was inspecting the bike and realized there are campagnolo rear dropouts. So I decided to bring the frame up to college with me to build it up, but I would like to identify the frame. A guy at the bike shop said the frame may be a late 70ís, early 80ís touring frame. I was unable to find much online regarding the serial number. Any help identifying the year, and/or make of the frame would be much appreciated! Things to note: the rear dropout spacing is 126mm (I donít have a ruler around but I put my 130mm wheel in and I had to span the dropouts for it to fit which led me to believe 126), there are also cable stops where the shifters braze onís would normally be mounted, there is only one bottle rack mount which is located on the down tube, and the cable guides run above the bottom bracket instead of underneath the bottom bracket.
The serial number is 0949
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Old 10-16-12, 10:29 PM
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I don't know much about touring frames but I can see where the bikeshop owner would think it's a touring frame. I think it may be an early to mid 70's frame and I think it may have been set up for bar-end shifters. I wonder what the centre to centre distance is for the dropouts/axles if the rear wheel was in the centre of the rear dropout? What i'm getting at is, does the frame have a long, touring wheelbase? It looks a little short to me - I think it may be around 1020mm. I am thinking that it might have been a racing cyclocross frame.
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Old 10-17-12, 09:46 AM
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at a glance I agree that it doesn't strike me as particularly "tourist" but more like a vintage "sport" frame that kept the eyelets in place so it could easily take fenders.
How about a shot of the rear seat cluster? And a better view of the headlugs?
What size seatpost?
My quick guess is that it's British, and that the barrel cable guides on the DT may have been added later.
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Old 10-17-12, 03:14 PM
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the seatpost is 26.8mm. I don't know very much about road frames but there is a shimano BB if that tells you anything also. so I believe that would mean it's english threaded?
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Old 10-17-12, 05:18 PM
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I'm thinking early 70's or maybe even late 60's based on the long drops and over the BB cable braze ons. Then again the fork crown looks later. Are the fork ends also Campagnolo? Those look like Prugnat lugs to me.
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Old 10-17-12, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I'm thinking early 70's or maybe even late 60's based on the long drops and over the BB cable braze ons. Then again the fork crown looks later. Are the fork ends also Campagnolo? Those look like Prugnat lugs to me.
I don't know what the fork ends are, they don't say anything.
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Old 10-17-12, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ldorchester12 View Post
the seatpost is 26.8mm. I don't know very much about road frames but there is a shimano BB if that tells you anything also. so I believe that would mean it's english threaded?
Not necessarily since Shimano made sealed BBs in both BSC and Ital, but you could probably both measure the width of the shell (68mm or 70mm?) and/or find the notation on the BB unit that tells you (may require removal for that).
I can't tell what brand those lugs are, but the seat stays are single-taper and a 26.8 could be a plain-gauge 531 seat tube,OR Aelle tubing, OR a Japanese tube like Tange or Ishiwata. I still think the other details (tho there aren't many) point to a Brit frame so if that seat post is correct size, I'd lean toward the plain-gauge 531.
Still just guessing.
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Old 10-18-12, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ldorchester12 View Post
I don't know what the fork ends are, they don't say anything.

So the fork might not be original if the drops don't match. My vote is for late 60's English. Hard to say any more than that.
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Old 10-19-12, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
So the fork might not be original if the drops don't match. My vote is for late 60's English. Hard to say any more than that.
Yeah I've been looking around and can't really find anything with a similar fork. I doubt it is original. thanks for you input
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Old 10-19-12, 03:04 PM
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full-sloping crown is not that unusual, can't tell if that one is a Haden (I think so) or a Cinelli, but since I'm still in the "Brit" camp on this I'd say Haden. Found on lots of Holdsworths and a few Raleighs among many brands. Yours looks like it is drilled for nutted brakes...if you measure the outer dimensions of the forkblades where they meet the crown (long and short axis) we can probably determine if the blades are Reynolds Imperial (my vote) style or Columbus (Continental) dimensions.
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Old 10-19-12, 04:11 PM
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Did you figure out the bottom bracket shell width or threading?
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Old 10-22-12, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain View Post
I don't know much about touring frames but I can see where the bikeshop owner would think it's a touring frame. I think it may be an early to mid 70's frame and I think it may have been set up for bar-end shifters. I wonder what the centre to centre distance is for the dropouts/axles if the rear wheel was in the centre of the rear dropout? What i'm getting at is, does the frame have a long, touring wheelbase? It looks a little short to me - I think it may be around 1020mm. I am thinking that it might have been a racing cyclocross frame.
Hey sorry it took so long to respond. I had to get my hands on a tape measure. but the wheelbase looks to be about 1047mm.
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Old 10-22-12, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
Did you figure out the bottom bracket shell width or threading?
So the shell width looks to be 70mm and english threading
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Old 10-22-12, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
if you measure the outer dimensions of the forkblades where they meet the crown (long and short axis)
sorry but how would I measure for the short and long axis?
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Old 10-22-12, 05:42 PM
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The braze on cable guides say mid 70s to me. Could be English, but so far photos not good enough to tell much.
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Old 10-22-12, 05:57 PM
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It is slack with not much drop, I am thinking c 1970 audax or cross bike also. It's interesting the only one side of the BB lug was cut but it has a really low serial number. Odd mix of stuff.
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Old 10-22-12, 07:39 PM
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Is it possible that the serial number is actually O949 and not 0949? the "clubrider" owned by Roy Clark towards the end of the page uses one letter and 3 numbers for a serial number http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bri...n_registry.htm
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Old 10-22-12, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I'm thinking early 70's or maybe even late 60's based on the long drops and over the BB cable braze ons. Then again the fork crown looks later. Are the fork ends also Campagnolo? Those look like Prugnat lugs to me.
Those BB cable guide braze-ons were common up until the early 1980s at least. Fork crown looks like the Davis crown used on the Raleigh "Professional" model. Are there eyelets on the fork ends as well? If not, it's possible the fork might not be original to the frame.
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Old 10-22-12, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
if you measure the outer dimensions of the forkblades where they meet the crown (long and short axis) we can probably determine if the blades are Reynolds Imperial (my vote) style or Columbus (Continental) dimensions.
Originally Posted by ldorchester12 View Post
sorry but how would I measure for the short and long axis?
Calipers work well for this. "Imperial" oval blades measure 29mm x 16mm at the crown, while "Continental" oval blades measure 28mm x 20mm at the crown.



Imperial oval blades were most often found on British bikes and may help narrow down the origin of your frame. N.B. Reynolds supplied blades in either profile, but most other tubing manufacturers only supplied "Continental" profile.
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Old 10-24-12, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Calipers work well for this. "Imperial" oval blades measure 29mm x 16mm at the crown, while "Continental" oval blades measure 28mm x 20mm at the crown.



Imperial oval blades were most often found on British bikes and may help narrow down the origin of your frame. N.B. Reynolds supplied blades in either profile, but most other tubing manufacturers only supplied "Continental" profile.
so I dont have a caliper but using a vice grip i'm measuring the long axis at about 28.575mm and the short axis at 9.525mm
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Old 10-24-12, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
It is slack with not much drop, I am thinking c 1970 audax or cross bike also. It's interesting the only one side of the BB lug was cut but it has a really low serial number. Odd mix of stuff.
I think "Audax" is a big possibility. I'm going off the idea that it was a cyclocross bike mainly due to the brake mountings. The wheelbase is quite long - longer than it appears to be.
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Old 10-24-12, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ldorchester12 View Post
so I dont have a caliper but using a vice grip i'm measuring the long axis at about 28.575mm and the short axis at 9.525mm
I got to get me of some these vice-grips!
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Old 10-24-12, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ldorchester12 View Post
so I dont have a caliper but using a vice grip i'm measuring the long axis at about 28.575mm and the short axis at 9.525mm
Wow! Vise-grips with accuracy to four significant figures! Short axis of ~10mm is very narrow.
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Old 10-25-12, 02:02 AM
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haha I guess they might be called c-clamps also... not sure. but I just used a tape measure after I found the axis distances then converted it.. definitely not the exact numbers I posted.
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