Anyone care to compare or provide some input on the ride qualities of Reynolds 853 tubing, specifically on Lemond bikes of the late 90's/early 2000's (Zurich, Buenos Aires), with some of the higher end Columbus made Italian/Belgian bikes such as those made by DeRosa, Tommasini or Merckx. Comparisons to SLX (not really apples to apples) and some of the early oversized Columbus tubings such as Neuron, EL-OS, and Genius would be much appreciated. I'm hearing some good things about these Lemonds and their ride quality and 853 tubing in particular and my curiousity is aroused, so I am trying to get some worthwhile opinions on the subject. Thanks!

What I have learned, over the years and through comparing a wide range of vintage road bicycles to one another, is that the tube set does not necessarily impact ride quality to any great degree. In fact, I can't tell the difference between a Peugeot Sprint built with Reynolds 501 and one built with Carbolite 103 high tensile tubing. The same goes for Reynolds 531 as compared to Columbus, or Champion, or Ishiwata, or...

My guess is that not many people are good enough riders to actually be able to notice the difference that the tubing makes. Geometry and componentry play a huge part in ride quality and cannot be separated from the actual ride experience.

Of course, the above is just my opinion and I have not had experience, with some of the tube sets, mentioned by the OP.

Well, I have NOTHING but good things to say about Lemonds...my Poprad was a wonderful bike. My wife's Zurich is everything a roadie should be; efficient, fun, comfortable. I think tubing is a lot less important than who put it together, but I like the OS 853 tubes and a good builder can make a great bike out of it. I would probably chose an 853 lemond over many other bikes I've ridden.

Geometry makes a difference, as do wheel choice and tires.

I've had both a Lemond Alps de Huez and a Trek 5800 OCLV in here at the same time.

Two guys were both looking for used bikes at the same time, and those are what I found for them on CL.
They brought them in for fitting, tuneup, pretty much getting them ready to go.

Other then the noise made when shifting, they rode pretty much the same, to me.
Light, strong, stiff, and very agile bikes. I probably preferred the Lemond geometry.

So, to summarize, if I can't tell between carbon and 853, I definitely can't tell between steels, other than weight.

Well that's good to hear. I have a 2002 Lemond Tourmalet on it's way made of 853. My LBS had an older Zurich for sale last year that I took for a test ride and loved, but their asking price was way too high. The Reynolds 853 and the longer top tubes of the Lemond's seem like a great combination for me.

Kobe - I think you'll like it...I've been VERY impressed by the Lemonds I've had (a Poprad, and an Alpe D'Huez).

The Propad seemed like a great idea that they discontinued way too quickly.

I don't think it was voluntary...I believe they made that model through 2007 when the Trek deal fell apart and Lemond went poof.

I guess Trek felt they didn't need Greg's name anymore, as they could bank on Lance's. I'm wondering if they're regretting that decision right now?

I've also been kind of curious about Lemonds -- they seem nice and go for reasonable prices. I also like the slightly longer TT geometry similar to my RB-1. If I could find a bare frame I'd probably snap it up.

Also curious about the top tube length. Is that length achieved through a slackening of the seat tube angle which theoretically would allow me to slide my saddle a bit forward (shortening the reach requirement) and still maintain the same position as on my other bikes in relation to the bottom bracket?

Good article about comparing frame tube sets: https://www.habcycles.com/m7.html

^^^ I especially love the Richard Sachs quote at the end of the article.

ATMO

ITGS (It's The Geometry, S[illy]). Tires and wheels after that. Everything else more or less ties for last, including tube set and quality of workmanship, provided the latter results in the tubes being aligned and staying together.

Folks who claim to discern esoteric differences between the ride qualities of different steels used in high end bikes are saying they see the emperor's new clothes.

I have been looking at LeMonds too. I would not hesitate so much now. In fact I already have a LeMond seat post!

Good article. I think I've read it before, but I like the points it makes.

Well, the article is 16 years old, and Bicycle Guide is defunct... which means it fits perfectly in Classic & Vintage.

So do I.

So much truth!

The older SL/SP framed Kvale I have up at the cabin is easily one of the nicest riding bicycles I've ever owned.

It brings a huge smile to my face every time I hop on and go for a nice ride to town and back.

853 is a great tubeset. Stiff, light, comfortable - they got it right.

Compared to my 853, SLX is flexy and very lively feeling (and more fun).

This 853 Croll cross bike should be a real beast.

Having owned and loved a 2000 853 Lemond Zurich, as well as a 1986 SLX De Rosa, a 1967 531 Paramount tiurer, an early 1980s Ron Cooper of mixed tubing and a 1978 Eisentraut also of mixed tubing, all I can say is that the Zurich is most decidedly not out of place in that company unless either TIG welding or carbon fiber puts you off your C&V breakfast. They all ride great, they are all a little different, they all look somewhere in the "really nice" to "OMG" range, and all are worth having.

The main thing I recall about the Lemond (it has been stripped won to frame-and-fork and has been sitting in my basement for six or seven years) is that it feels like you are on rails when descending. Since I also like to slide my backside back when climbing, I did like both the longer top tube and the slightly slacker seat tube angle. On the other hand, some of the other frames have significantly shorter top tubes and I enjoy the heck out of them.

As I recall, the Zurich, the Buenos Aires and the Alpe d'Huez are all the same frame and fork in a given year. The differences are (1) paint and (2) the compnents that were hung on them. I believe the Poprad was always a bit different and intended as a cyclo-cross frame (meaning more tire clearance, canti bosses, and a higher bottom bracket). The others were all based on Greg's road race frame geometry preferences. And the tales I heard floating around was that Lance got tired of Greg bad-mouthing him and wanted to stick it Greg, and since both were affiliated with Trek and Lance was the face of the main Trek line while Lemonds were a fairly small piece of the Trek pie - well, you do the math.