Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

french noname frame tubing?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

french noname frame tubing?

Old 11-26-12, 06:13 PM
  #1  
anon20120409
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
french noname frame tubing?

Hello,
I am wondering what tubing could my frame have. It didn't hava any decals, neither badge, neither anything embeded (except for the number 135 on the bb). The dropouts are plain, french bb, clearence for mudguards and rear spacing around 123mm.

I don't know what else can describe the frame... Any info accepted.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0027.jpg (91.7 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0029.jpg (91.6 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0030.jpg (89.3 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0033.jpg (92.0 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0038.jpg (91.9 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0045.jpg (93.2 KB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0049.jpg (95.2 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0050.jpg (95.7 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0054.jpg (94.0 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0059.jpg (91.3 KB, 79 views)
anon20120409 is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 06:26 PM
  #2  
SuperLJ
"part timer"
 
SuperLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tidewater VA
Posts: 522

Bikes: '75 Raleigh GS, '78 Bertin C35, '82 Trek 614, '83 Trek 620, '95 Mercian Ko'M, '98 Fisher HKEK, '00 Rivendell RS, '01 Heron Tour, '16 Nobilette

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 10 Posts
Don't know how you'd tell about the tubing. The lugs appear to be Prugnat 62bis, which would indicate a high end frame. Dropouts looke stamped rather than forged though. Is the tubing french dimensioned too (26mm top tube rather than 25.4, etc.)? Cool frame - pretty wrap around stays!
SuperLJ is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 06:28 PM
  #3  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Liked 284 Times in 230 Posts
Don't worry about the tubing. There will be some guide as to the price point based on the seat post size. Decent Prugnaut short point lugs. More attention to the seat stay tops than even many claimed 531 frames. Best clue to the parentage is actually the shifter stop on the down tube. The lack of forged dropouts is actually the most surprising.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 06:35 PM
  #4  
scozim 
Ellensburg, WA
 
scozim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 3,430

Bikes: See my signature

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by SuperLJ View Post
Cool frame - pretty wrap around stays!
+1
__________________
1984 Gitane Sprint; 1984 Gitane Tour de France; 1982 Trek 610; 1968 Peugeot PL8; 1982 Nishiki Marina 12; 1972 Peugeot PX-10; 1984 Peugeot PSV; 1993 Trek 950 mtb; 1997 Klein Pulse Comp mtb; 1989 Peugeot Limestone hybrid (for touring); 1975 Gitane Olympic; 1983 Vitus 979; 1989 Spectrum Titanium:
scozim is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 06:35 PM
  #5  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,139

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The wrapped seta stay tips on the seat lug seems to suggest an English bike, but it having a French (threaded?) BB says that it isn't
But, If it is indeed French, then it could be anything from either some sort of Hi tensile carbon steel "house" tubing made by the bicycle company themselves (Like Peugeot's Carbolite 103) or Vitus (172, 888..etc) or Reynolds (531 mostly for older French bikes). It could be the latter two as the frame has quite nice lugs on it. Any pics of the fork and the fork crown we can look at??
Columbus did also appear on French bikes, but that was later in the 80's for some of the higher end/"team issue" racing models for different French companies....mostly SLX.

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 06:36 PM
  #6  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Liked 284 Times in 230 Posts
Always Durifort too.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-26-12, 09:31 PM
  #7  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,575
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 96 Posts
is there a shifter stop on the DT...I can't see anything?
Looks very interesting. Seat post size will be telling. The stay end treatment looks more "Swiss" than "French".
No fork?
Durifort = Vitus...more-or-less...just another timeframe.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 02:53 AM
  #8  
DanielWilde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If the bike is French, the tubeset will most likely be either from

- the Ateliers de la Rive, who produced the Durifort and Vitus-tubesets, or
- Reynolds.
DanielWilde is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 02:55 AM
  #9  
DanielWilde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Durifort = Vitus...more-or-less...just another timeframe.
No, they are different and were also produced at the same time: http://www.yellowjersey.org/vitus.html
DanielWilde is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 04:59 AM
  #10  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 27,133
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 871 Times in 551 Posts
Could be Excelle tubing. Framebuilders liked working with it.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 06:33 AM
  #11  
southpawboston 
Senior Member
 
southpawboston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somerville, MA and Catskill Mtns
Posts: 4,027
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Measure the seatpost diameter, that should indicate the wall thickness which can give a clue as to the tubing origin.
__________________
Velo Lumino - Lighting components and integration solutions for fine hand-built and classically inspired bicycles

Riding the Catskills blog

Flickr

1971 Mercian Olympic | 1972 Jeunet 630 | 1982 Jack Taylor Tour of Britain | 1984 Shogun 1500 650B | 2013 Rawland Stag | 2014 Jeff Lyon L'Avecaise | 2015 Bike Friday Haul-a-Day
southpawboston is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 09:59 AM
  #12  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Liked 284 Times in 230 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Could be Excelle tubing. Framebuilders liked working with it.
That I doubt, Excell was marketed to top end small producers. If the bike had forged dropouts, then I would be more open to that possibility.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 10:35 AM
  #13  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,575
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 96 Posts
Originally Posted by DanielWilde View Post
No, they are different and were also produced at the same time: http://www.yellowjersey.org/vitus.html
What I meant by that comment is that they were from the same company, and that Durifort was more common (as the brand they sold) prior to the Vitus brand.
But thanks to the catalog scan you provided, it's clear they also retained the "Durifort" brand (as their budget tubing, 888) into the "Vitus era". Also interesting to see that this was available in "Imperial" dimensions as well as metric...yet another thing I didn't know.

This prompted me to do a little digging and I learned much more than anybody wants to read here about Ateliers de la Rive, and their tubing products, from both Chas Colerich and this from Norris Lockley...which I will share since it's just shy of enormous:
"Ateliers de la Rive, a company based on the outskirts of St Etienne, =
France, started making tubes in 1931. In the early post WW2 years their =
premium tubing was called Rubis, and widely used by French quality frame =
builders. Around this time Urago, in Nice, started using DURIFORT - the =
tubing maker's base set of plain gauge tubing for their "Debutante" =
model, and "Vitus" a lighter double-buted set, for their better frames, =
alongside Reynolds 531DB.

Durifort continued as a set well into the 1970s by which time Ateliers =
de la Rive had introduced Vitus 171, a series of double-butted tubes in =
chrome-molybdenum steel, with wall thickness generally of 1.00 / 0.7mm. "

Last edited by unworthy1; 11-27-12 at 10:46 AM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 11:14 AM
  #14  
anon20120409
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Thanks to everyone for the opinions and here are the rest metrics...

top tube outer diameter: 26mm
seat tube outer diameter: 28mm
seat tube inner diameter: 25.4mm
bottom tube outer diameter: 28mm
bottom bracket width: 68mm
also no fork...

and now I am checking if a french bb screws on.
an italian bb did not suit at all

Last edited by anon20120409; 11-27-12 at 11:37 AM.
anon20120409 is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 11:22 AM
  #15  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,415
Mentioned: 506 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3105 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 532 Times in 428 Posts
The tubing dimensions are consistent with a French frame built with a hi-tensile steel.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 12:40 PM
  #16  
anon20120409
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
just found a marking on the right side of bottom bracket, it says EDA

and I am not sure if bb is french or swiss, as I still can not unscrew the right cup



Thanks again for the replys!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Zi6_0066.jpg (98.2 KB, 64 views)
anon20120409 is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 01:03 PM
  #17  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,139

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by anon20120409 View Post
just found a marking on the right side of bottom bracket, it says EDA

and I am not sure if bb is french or swiss, as I still can not unscrew the right cup



Thanks again for the replys!
Look/feel inside the BB shell and you might be able to see the treading direction of that side you cannot remove the cup from....
Chombi is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 02:23 PM
  #18  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,415
Mentioned: 506 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3105 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 532 Times in 428 Posts
That's a Stronglight fixed cup. It appears to have a single ring cut/engraved into it. If so, that indicates French threading. You may want to strip the paint off of it, to be sure.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 08:51 PM
  #19  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,575
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 96 Posts
the EDA BB shell is a bit mysterious: it mimics the logo of the more common RGF (Gargette Brothers) shell, and some folks think it might be another brand from them, but the EDA shell has shown up on Jeunets, Louison Bobets, and Jacques Anquetil frames as well as some Raleigh Pros, too! I'd be surprised if it had Swiss threading, but since they must have made it with BSC threads...anything's possible!
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-27-12, 11:01 PM
  #20  
Captain Blight
Senior Member
 
Captain Blight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I love this episode of Bicycle Detective! When's the next installment?
Captain Blight is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 04:47 AM
  #21  
DanielWilde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
What I meant by that comment is that they were from the same company, and that Durifort was more common (as the brand they sold) prior to the Vitus brand.
But thanks to the catalog scan you provided, it's clear they also retained the "Durifort" brand (as their budget tubing, 888) into the "Vitus era". Also interesting to see that this was available in "Imperial" dimensions as well as metric...yet another thing I didn't know.
Sorry, didn't want to sound teaching. Just thought that you thought it would be the same tubing given just a different name.
DanielWilde is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 07:52 AM
  #22  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I agree with T-mar. The seatpost size indicates high tensile steel.

That doesn't mean that it can't be built up into a nice-riding bike. The French had a way with gas pipe. It can be expensive to build up a forkless frame unless you have a lot of spare parts on hand.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 08:32 AM
  #23  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Liked 284 Times in 230 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I agree with T-mar. The seatpost size indicates high tensile steel.

That doesn't mean that it can't be built up into a nice-riding bike. The French had a way with gas pipe. It can be expensive to build up a forkless frame unless you have a lot of spare parts on hand.
I agree completely. The French in the 60's and 70's often made bikes that rode beyond their elements.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-28-12, 01:42 PM
  #24  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,575
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 96 Posts
Originally Posted by DanielWilde View Post
Sorry, didn't want to sound teaching. Just thought that you thought it would be the same tubing given just a different name.
since I'm still learning, I appreciate some "teaching"...but also felt the need to explain myself better
Thanks!
unworthy1 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jmonsw21
Classic & Vintage
9
04-30-16 04:31 PM
gbi
Classic & Vintage
4
11-19-15 01:45 PM
thaian
Classic & Vintage
13
07-30-15 06:01 AM
leicanthrope
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
2
08-11-13 01:13 PM
plesu
Classic & Vintage
6
07-04-13 10:39 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.