hoyc

I acquired this frame earlier this week. The previous owner has repainted it, but never got around to building it up.

There are no distinguishing marks to ID this frame, so I was hoping you all could help me find the make/model/year.

A few notes:

The seller told me the frame was Columbus SL, however he couldn't confirm this, as this was told to him by the individual he bought it from. Frame is relatively lightweight, but not "exotically" light (no guesses on a weight however, as I still have to remove the BB).

The dropouts say "Shimano SF".

The frame is drilled for nutted brakes.

It had braze-on shifter bosses and braze, top-tube cable guides (3 of them) and der. hanger. The shift cable routing went over the bottom bracket. (All the braze-ons were removed by the previous owner, but that's all right as I'm building this up as an around-town single speed).

There are no markings on the headset or BB.

The serial number is M1M55550.

The geometry is fairly slack and only has fender eyelets.


Any help would be much appreciated

Gary Fountain

This on is a hard one. Personally I have no clue to it's origin although someone may be able to identify the serial number. You say the rear gear cable fan through guides on the bottom bracket. That and the relaxed geometry suggest to me that it's probably a 1970's frame or there abouts. Normally I would not agree with a bike loosing it's original persona but seeing that it's already happened and to is probably a quality frame, I agree that it would make a wonderful fixed wheel bike.

I don't think an identification is possible but then again, there are some pretty well informed members of this forum.

hoyc

I did buy this with the intention of of building building fixed gear. All the components will be transplanted from an old Fuji frame I wrecked in a crash (but miraculously all the components survived unscathed, including the wheels).

I agree with your guess of 70's. I'm thinking Japanese as well due to the Shimano dropouts. Was it common to see columbus tubing on Japanese frames? That is the only thing that seemed out of place for me.

Gary Fountain

No, I wouldn't think so. I'm not all that familiar with Japanese frames but I can't say that I've ever seen a Japanese frame built with Columbus tubing. I do know that Japanese frames are held in high regard due to their build quality. If the previous owner is correct about the frame being built from Columbus SL and the dropouts are Shimano, it could be a frame built by a small builder and perhaps local although having such an extensive serial number really suggests that this outcome may be incorrect. Also, the stamping of the serial number is machine done - doing that by hand is really difficult - suggesting a big frame builder.

T-Mar

The serial number is consistent with Merida of Taiwan. While I agree that it looks 1970s, the serial number would suggest 1971 manufacturer which I believe is too early for Shimano SF dropouts. That suggests 1981, but the lack of braze-ons would be curious for this period. Generally owners don't repaint over chrome and the apparent lack of chrome on a bicycle with forged droputs is typically more indicative of 1981 than 1971.

There were some brands manufactured in Japan with Columbus tubing, notably the upper end Lotus models but the tubing is more likely an Ishiwata or Tange set. If you remove the fork there should a manufacturer's stamp and possibly a date code, stamped on the outside of the steerer tube. Also check for the presence of splines on the inside of the bottom of the steerer tube and report the quantity and style (straight or spiral). Finally, the diameter of the seat post is often a good clue as to the grade or rough level of the tubeset.

Almost forgot. Are there any headbadge rivet holes in the head tube, If so, how many and what pattern? What's the spacing betrween the rear dropouts, 120 or 126mm?

orangeology

(it's always speechless when witnessing Sir T-Mar's assessment on a mysterious stuffs)
KUDOS!

shoota 

Amen to that.

himespau 

+1

hoyc

There actually were braze-ons on the bike, however they were removed by the previous owner.
There is also no chrome on this bike.
I did remove the fork and it says Tange 2A, however no splines in the headtube.
Dropout spacing is 126.
No headbadge rivets.
Seapost diameter I believe is either 26.6 or 26.8. I haven't actually measured, but just a guess based on how loose a 26.2 seatpost was that i slipped in.

So I'm thinking that it is 80's Japanese now, which if anything makes this ID job X1000 tougher.

hoyc

I threw some wheels on just so I could wheel it to the bike co-op later today, and I'm almost certain that this was a touring bike due to the long chainstays and slack angles, however there are only one set of eyelets on the rear dropouts, which is perplexing.

T-Mar

The fork is from January 1982 so a 1981 manufacturing date for the frame is not unrerasonable. It's almost cerainly a 1982 model. Removed braze-ons further satisfy the era deduction. A 26.8mm post is indicative of a Tange tubeset. Unfortunately, almost all of their CrMo sets from this era use that post size, so it's almost impossible to further determine the exact tubeset.

You say a touring bicycle. Is there evidence of removed cantilever studs? Maybe the longer wheelbase is an illusion? You may have put 700c wheels with small tires on a bicycle intended for 27" wheels. That can easily add a 1/2" of apparent wheelbase.

hoyc

T-Mar, it certainly is possible it is an illusion. Upon second glance, although there are long chainstays (not a racing bike), the brake bridge clearance is not SUPER generous, thus I'm thinking this frame was designed for 700c. There are also no signs of canti-studs.

JohnDThompson 

Not necessarily. Trek used a lot of Shimano SF dropouts on frames built with Ishiwata, Reynolds, and Columbus tubing. IIRC, there were some supply problems with Campy 1010 dropouts for a while in the early 80s. I've seen Shimano SF dropouts on more than a few British frames as well, perhaps for the same reason.

The fork crown on your frame does remind me of Japanese production, though. Is there anything stamped on the steer tube? Any rifling inside the base of the steer tube where it is inserted into the crown?

T-Mar

We've already been through this. It has a Tange fork from January 1982 and the post size (26.8mm) is also consistent with Tange. The serial number is consistent with a frame manufactured by Merida of Taiwan in 1981.

I still don't think it's (grand) touring frame. Typically they would have double eyelets on the rear studs and if it did have souble etelets, I don't think the previous owner would have removed only one set.

The most popular brand being manufactured by Merida during this period was Raleigh, so one of their models would be a prime candidate and the start of my search. Obviously not a bottom of the line model like the Record, but possibly an upper entry level model like the Super Course. It would probably have that combination of forged dropout with intregral hanger and eyelets, slightly longer wheelbase, relaxed angles, and a CrMo frame.

Hummer

Hi hoyc,

about the serial number for your bicycle. I would respectfully disagree that it is Merida of Taiwan. For two reasons.

First: The third character of the serial number is "M" which is supposed to indicate the month in the Merida format. The letters used by Merida went from A to L, the first 12 letters. I have only seen Merida serial numbers using these letters for the month. "M" is outside this range.

Second: The second character is the number "1", which indicates the year. Based on your description of the frame the year of manufacture is probably 1981, as opposed to 1991 or 1971. The earliest Merida serial numbers that I have seen are from 1983 and have a "-" as the third character and only 4 digits following the month character. Example: M3-E1234; where M=Merida, 3=1983, E=May, 1234=sequential number. Your serial number is different from this format. In the 1984 Merida serial numbers there begins to be a fifth digit in the sequential number. Sometime in 1987 the Merida serial numbers loose the "-".

So what manufacturers serial number is this? I think it is Miki of Sekai, Japan.

Miki serial numbers used the letter "M" in the month, they skipped the letter "I" which was not uncommon in Japanese serial numbers. Miki also used 5 digits for its sequential number.

I would decode your serial number to M=Miki, 1=1981, M=December, 55550 in the production sequence.

Miki manufactured frames for several brand names in the early 1980s, in Europe, Australia, and North America. I cannot say which brand name was on you bicycle.