How Much Of A Difference Does 4mm Make?
09-10-13 | 07:44 PM
#26
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From: Scranton, PA, USA
Bikes: '77 Centurion "Pro Tour"; '67 Carlton "The Flyer"; 1984 Ross MTB (stored at parents' house)
It's as much conjecture on my part as it would have been if you wrote it, too. It's not like I design bicycle parts and whatnot for a living.
09-11-13 | 04:43 AM
#27
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From: Cleveland,Ohio
From a retailer's website:
Pasela is the standard all around touring or urban commuting tire. Its comprehensive size range insures that you can find a Pasela for most any usage. Ride it and trust it.
Pasela is the standard all around touring or urban commuting tire. Its comprehensive size range insures that you can find a Pasela for most any usage. Ride it and trust it.
- 27" has different tread pattern than other 700c Pasela tires
09-11-13 | 05:24 AM
#28
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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From: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Jobst Brandt's book says that spoke tension makes no difference on how the wheel handles bumps, that tire deflection is so much greater.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
09-11-13 | 05:43 AM
#29
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From: Fredericksburg, Va
Bikes: ? Proteous, '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, 'Litespeed Catalyst'94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Interesting that this topic was presented. I am awaiting 2 pair of Sun M13II, one pair 700C and the other 27". Both will be laced to Campy Record HF hubs. I guess I can do my own reduced variable test. The bike will be a 1984 Trek 610.
09-11-13 | 05:50 AM
#30
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From: Wherever
There's a thread over on the CR list at the moment. Some fellow asking about recommendations for 27 X 1 1/4 rims. When I posted that I like the Sun M 13 II rims I have, two wheelbuilders there piped up and said they both thought the rim was junk. Problems with the joints, un-even tension, not flat, etc., etc.
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
09-11-13 | 08:53 AM
#31
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From: Louisville
That's not true, though.
09-11-13 | 10:20 AM
#32
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From: Louisville, KY
I'm not sure you've got a 4 mm difference. You might have a 0 mm difference given that the 27" wheel has a 4 mm bigger radius, but a roughly 4 mm smaller tire. On the other hand, it's right after lunch, I'm full, kind of warm, and it could be that my logic/math portions of my brain are already asleep and waiting for the rest of my body to catch up.
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Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
09-11-13 | 12:13 PM
#34
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Back in the day, I could sure tell the difference between a Coors and a Bud , blindfolded. But then, I cam of age in Utah, where , if you were lucky, the content came up to the max allowed 3.2. It all tasted foul to me. Like pee water. So I never developed a taste for beer.
Until I went to Beijing.
The only difference I can discern between wheel sets is between clinchers and tubulars.
Until I went to Beijing.
The only difference I can discern between wheel sets is between clinchers and tubulars.
09-11-13 | 12:25 PM
#35
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From: New Haven, CT, USA
Bikes: Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
"No one can tell what beer they are drinking either if they don't know before hand." This led to a blind taste test of beers. The testers included 5 or 6 'I only drink Bud' and 'I only drink Coors' loyalist. I was the aberration in the test in that I guessed 5 out of six right, lots of practice , no one else got more then two right and people could even guess their favorite beer right.
, no one else got more then two right and people could even guess their favorite beer right.
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The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
09-11-13 | 12:33 PM
#36
The Drive Side is Within
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From: New Haven, CT, USA
Bikes: Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
There's a thread over on the CR list at the moment. Some fellow asking about recommendations for 27 X 1 1/4 rims. When I posted that I like the Sun M 13 II rims I have, two wheelbuilders there piped up and said they both thought the rim was junk. Problems with the joints, un-even tension, not flat, etc., etc.
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
__________________
The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
09-11-13 | 12:34 PM
#37
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From: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
...
All of which led to someone saying "No one can tell what beer they are drinking either if they don't know before hand." This led to a blind taste test of beers. The testers included 5 or 6 'I only drink Bud' and 'I only drink Coors' loyalist. I was the aberration in the test in that I guessed 5 out of six right, lots of practice, no one else got more then two right and people could even guess their favorite beer right.
...
All of which led to someone saying "No one can tell what beer they are drinking either if they don't know before hand." This led to a blind taste test of beers. The testers included 5 or 6 'I only drink Bud' and 'I only drink Coors' loyalist. I was the aberration in the test in that I guessed 5 out of six right, lots of practice
, no one else got more then two right and people could even guess their favorite beer right....
Because, as you say, they were guessing. You got lucky!
09-11-13 | 04:12 PM
#38
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
I built with a 27" M12II then de-strung it because the joint waqs too uneven. I tried polishing it down but that didn't really help, jutws left it with a flat spot that still grabs the brakes. The LBS guy said it wouldn't stay that way long, but I gave up on it. However I have other M13IIs that are just fine.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
09-11-13 | 05:11 PM
#39
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From: Wherever
I have M 13 II's that seem fine. Good joint, nice and tight. Seems to be aligned very well.
BTW, you can usually fix those mis-aligned joints, Standalone. Unless it's really bad. If they're anodized, though, it'll leave a mark.
These guys I referenced on the CR list were both pro wheel builders, it sounded like, so I didn't want to argue with them.
But the M13 IIs I have seem to be fine. Maybe I got lucky?
BTW, you can usually fix those mis-aligned joints, Standalone. Unless it's really bad. If they're anodized, though, it'll leave a mark.
These guys I referenced on the CR list were both pro wheel builders, it sounded like, so I didn't want to argue with them.
But the M13 IIs I have seem to be fine. Maybe I got lucky?
09-11-13 | 05:42 PM
#40
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I'm not trying to pointlessly argue- I'm genuinely interested in this.
I went from a higher volume, lower pressure tire to a lower volume, higher pressure tire.
I've experienced this with 700C x 25 to 28 and 28 to 32 and 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. In each instance- going from a smaller tire to a larger tire increases the "plushness" of the ride. I've ridden this particular bike with two different sets of 28s and 32s. I don't think it's a matter of the tire or the pressure. That leaves the hubs, rims and size.
I went from a higher volume, lower pressure tire to a lower volume, higher pressure tire.
I've experienced this with 700C x 25 to 28 and 28 to 32 and 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. In each instance- going from a smaller tire to a larger tire increases the "plushness" of the ride. I've ridden this particular bike with two different sets of 28s and 32s. I don't think it's a matter of the tire or the pressure. That leaves the hubs, rims and size.
09-11-13 | 05:54 PM
#41
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From: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3
There's a thread over on the CR list at the moment. Some fellow asking about recommendations for 27 X 1 1/4 rims. When I posted that I like the Sun M 13 II rims I have, two wheelbuilders there piped up and said they both thought the rim was junk. Problems with the joints, un-even tension, not flat, etc., etc.
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
I haven't noticed such problems with that rim. Though I have only built one of the two sets I have, and, I'm no pro wheel builder.
Anyone else have issues with the Sun rims?
CR-18
M-13 II
CRT 16 II (NOS)
5 had a perceptible flat spot on the rim joint affecting radial true.
Not enough to really worry about. I only made minimal effort to remove it, striving for more even spoke tension instead.
I'm riding the M13's and never even think about it. I even hit an old style storm sewer grate the "wrong way" bouncing my 230 lbs. out of the seat about 8-10". About 5 minutes with the truing stand and tension meter and it was pretty much in the same tolerance as when new.
32 spoke.
14/15 DT Swiss DS
15/16 DT Swiss NDS.
Shimano RM-30 hub.
I built one rear using a Velocity Synergy OC I bought from Peter White. It had a similar flat spot, but cost about 3X as much as the Sun's.
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